Here is the sad picture of H&BT 38 after the fire in Knox, PA (http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 1&nseq=146). I have always thought that this would make an interesting addition to the Railroad Museum of PA as it would represent both a shortline steam locomotive and something from the Huntingdon & Broad Top Railroad. I know, where would the money come from? They already have three 2-8-0 locos. But we can still dream. Anyone know who bought this loco?

Scott,

At this point, no one has bought the locomotive. Tune in this weekend, however, since the auction occurs Friday and Saturday. I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about come Sunday.

-Keith

There's a small faction out there--myself included--that STRONGLY believes that this loco is THE prime potential addition to the RR Museum of Pa. collection. If there were any provision that would allow--just for the sake of example--some group to purchase it and trade it to the Museum for the H8 or H10, and then let the 2846 or 7688 get displayed somewhere else entirely appropriate (Altoona? Ohio? Pittsburgh?), then I would be all for it. Unfortunately, it appears that such a "scheme" is explicitly barred by the Pa. Historic & Museum Commission.

The other "perfect" addition to the RR Museum of Pa. on several counts: one of the two Baldwin "Sharks" currently in Michigan.

In the meantime, while we all wonder if a fund for Number 38's restoration would be a better use of our money than placing it in the stock market, I offer up these two photos of her from Summer 1954.

The late Jim Lilly of Huntingdon, PA took these photos as 38 was sitting at Long Siding Yard (at Huntingdon) during the Hyman-Michaels scrapping. H-M used the locomotive to power the salvage train, and once that was finished, it spotted equipment for scrapping at Long Siding. Literally everything that didn't go to Rail City, excepting cabins 3, 15 and 16, was cut up behind the photographer.

See how the numberplate and builders plates have already been removed? Collectors stripped the good stuff from the equipment immediately after the shutdown.

-Keith

Sandy,
You said "Unfortunately, it appears that such a "scheme" is explicitly barred by the Pa. Historic & Museum Commission." What exactly is barred? Trading locomotives? Displaying locomotives offsite at other museums? I have thought for a while that the RRMofPA would benefit from the example of the National Railway Museum in York, UK. I am referring to their having more equipment than they can display on site and move items around to various locations. Would this be barred? What about a group buying and donating the loco. Would that be allowed? Just wondering because I am not familiar with the technicalities of RRMofPA's charter.
Scott Markloff
PS- The RRMofPA would benefit from both sharks, they look far better back to back than separately, besides, its gives a more realistic impression of when they were in service.

I've suggested for years that RMPA get one of the EBT hoppers. It, too, would be a natural addition, and has an unquestionable Pennsylvania state connection, both built and operated in PA. Displayed alongside a standard gauge hopper, it could be used to point out the difference between the two gauges, and would be a tribute to the many other NG lines in PA. Maybe someday-

I prefer to call them thieves... but thanks for posting the pix!

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA.

I have discussed the logistics of such hare-brained ideas in the past with parties that shall not be named to protect the innocent. Suffice it to say that, being under the control of a state bureaucracy, the wheels of what otherwise might be called "common sense" don't necessarily operate on the same gauge as the track the PHMC uses. Their regulations are intended to protect the Museum from the otherwise somewhat common practice of casual, lackadaisical, or even outright criminal misappropriation of resources for personal benefit (what, you've never taken home a book or manual to read?), but at the same time can hamper the application of "good ideas" such as trading locos.

As one example, I was in the position to offer the Museum--well, let's make up an example here just to protect the innocent--a complete run of a particular periodical, in excellent condition. What I asked in return was for the incomplete, battered set on their shelves as trade, so I could at least keep some reference material. Even though it was a fair deal and would have benefited the Museum archives to do so, the older editions had already been added to the official archives, and I was told it would take, and I quote, "an act of God co-signed by Allah and Buddha" for them to de-accession the incomplete set. (Made-up example, not-made-up quote.) Thus, I am inclined to believe that an outright trade of 2-8-0's is out of the question, but not, say, a "loan" of a PRR 2-8-0 to Altoona.

There exist--or at least did--official lists of certain resources that are targeted for acquisition by the RR Museum of Pa., but said list that I saw years ago was limited to such things as newly-published books on Pennsylvania railroads, or missing periodicals to complete a reference set. I'm told that the officials at the Museum are pretty much officially barred from actually ASKING for additional pieces of rolling stock, but that a delicate game of hints, insinuations, and the like MAY exist between the Friends of the RR Museum of Pa. and museum staff, or even with railroads, private car owners, etc. And of course, for every well-thought-out acquisition, scads of stuff like the 2,429th "complete set of Trains" and umpteen PRR lanterns get offered for donation by well-meaning heirs.

Therefore, just to cite the example suggested above, if the Friends of the EBT were to acquire an EBT hopper and donate it to the RR Museum of Pa., I'm certain some arrangements could be made to get said hopper to Strasburg, and get it restored and painted for display. Private donations have been made--most notably the PRR GP30 2233, donated to the Museum by the family of its late owner, Richard Sanders. But bigger stuff that runs the risk of redundancy--and even H&BTM 38 and the Sharks can fit this problem--requires careful, strategic planning.

The critical key in any of this--and this is true of ANY such rail museum, not just the RRMusPa--is that the Museum MUST be involved in the process. One should go to the Museum first and say, "Would you like it if XY&Z 8704 could show up at your gate?" You find out if they have the room and can justify its addition to the collection. This avoids the "junkyard" syndrome so common in our field, and keeps the place looking professional and neat.

And by the way, there's a reason I suggest "A" Baldwin Shark and not both of them. Would you rather have one or none? Would you rather have both cold on the Museum grounds, or one cold in Monongahela colors there and one operating in D&H colors at some other location?

This is going off on a tangent, but I was told a few weeks ago that Conestoga Traction 236, the Birney in Manheim PA, was transferred by PHMC to Manheim Historical Society ownership earlier this year. It's been owned by PHMC since 1953, I believe, though its physical location has changed a number of times while it was on loan to various groups. Since 1990 it has been in Manheim, where volunteers restored it to operation. Can anyone confirm or deny that ownership of this car has actually been transferred from PHMC to MHS?

well, someday when she'll run no more I would love to see her at the RRMofPA but some of us STRONGLY feel she should run some more.

A Rail City reunion, perhaps?

At risk of getting flamed, let me put this idea out there: is the 38 a better candidate for restoration than 1361? Would it make sense for the Altoona museum to purchase it for restoration rather than spending more money on 1361?

Chris.

Better yet, now that you mention said K4, would #38 be better off in the operating collection of Steamtown, if it's restorable to operating condition? It would most likely never run at Strasburg. Would be great if they actually had an operable U. S. road engine for the excursions. Probably big enough to handle the typical train for them.

People, I told you this before as long as David Dunn and others are head of the Railroad Museum of PA. there will be no trading or any other. Like restoring a locomotive to running conditions.

Also why would the museum trade any of their PRR steam for No.38? It's not worth it.
Sure its historical, but not like, of the only PRR steam left. sure there's other PRR steam around but those engines are not in that good of shape, except for No.643.

Len.

Yes, and you also told us about a PRR steamer in a quarry, for all that was worth.



A completely objective look over the roster of the RR Museum of Pa. will show how heavily over-saturated it is with PRR steam. It is the RR Museum of Pa., not the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum--though you might be hard pressed to tell that. The Museum deserves some degree of balance, in the form of more representation of the DL&W, Erie, WM, B&LE, P&LE, and even the NYC. A steamer from a Pennsylvania shortline is almost a "no-brainer" acquisition priority, better yet if it was built in Pa. Nominate another Pa. shortline steamer out there, anywhere, besides the EBT switchers and H&BT 38. It's also something of a "no-brainer" that the RR Museum of Pa. could, if they wanted to and were allowed to, loan or trade either the H6 or the H10 2-8-0's without leaving too much of a gap in the display, especially if there were H&BT 38 in its place. The only problem is that the only qualified place so far that would be appropriate for such a loan would be Altoona's museum, and by sheer bad luck those locos were built by Baldwin and Lima respectively and not Altoona/Juniata!

As a PRR fan, I find it gratifying that such a wealth of PRR steam did escape the scrapper and ended up with a very secure future. But also as a PRR fan, I find it a bit annoying that almost all of it is concentrated at one site, and what PRR steam isn't there is largely out of public view or in several pieces......... For that reason alone, I'd love it if another PRR steamer could be at a "good" home elsewhere, like Fort Wayne, or Pittsburgh......... and I'm rooting for the underdogs in Renovo hoping to get PRR 60 from Delaware!

Mr. Mitchell,
If you want this steamer saved, why don't you buy it and then have it restored, After all you must have a good enough of a bank account, being a well to do person like your self.

The steam locomotives in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania will stay where they are.
We do have a narrow gauge locomotive on display.
1883 Waimanolo Sugar Co. No. 2 Olomana Baldwin 0-4-2T (36”) On Loan Last operated 4/23/1977. Loaned by Smithsonian Institution. Arrived
12/1999. 19th century Hawaiian plantation locomotive built in Philadelphia.

And as far as the PRR B8. it is still in the quarry, The State of Pennsylvania pulled the plug on diving the quarry, they didn't give us a reason why.

Len.