> Probably has something to do with climate
> and source. Didn't have that difficulty in
> CO high and dry.

> Dave
Probably true. Living in a rain forest, wood rots rapidly. Even redwood and ceder rot here. The point is that what will work in the high and dry may not work where it is hot and humid.

ironbartom@aol.com

A couple of years ago I read a book discussing passenger rail opperations. It was a Brittish book of fairly recent vintage, and described the debate that the Jappanese National Railways undertook when they considered their new high speed lines back in the sixties. Apparently they did a study that carefully considered the gauge question, as they were debating whether or not to build a seperate broader gausge system, since their entire system at that time was something close to 3'. Their study found any gauge between about four and six feet to be within a broad range of optimal effeiciency, where anything smaller would create problems in the long run, and wouldn't allow for stable operations at the speeds they were considereing. They opted to build a new system. They could have chosen any gauge they wished, but selected 4'8.5," the international standard gauge, as it would make interchange with other nations, and import/export of equipment easier. In light of that study, I'm quite skeptical that broad gauges present any susbstatial advantages over standrd gauge.

Sincerely,

David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

> Probably true. Living in a rain forest, wood
> rots rapidly. Even redwood and ceder rot
> here. The point is that what will work in
> the high and dry may not work where it is
> hot and humid.

How true - and you guys put your roadbed to maximum use too.

Dave


irondave@bellsouth.net

As a racing fan and a steam loco fan, Please explain the reference to the Indy 500 motors. Thanks!

> As a racing fan and a steam loco fan,
> Please explain the reference to the Indy 500
> motors. Thanks!

Back in the '60s, the Indy 500 assn. imported some 22.75" little Welsh quarry dinks. Tiny little 8 ton things. They have been in storage since.

Biph
PS A steam locomotive is NEVER referred to as a motor. As a rule of thumb, any machine that transforms heat energy into mechanical energy is an "engine"; one that converts electrical energy into mechanical energy is called a "motor". Many interurbans called their freight locomotives "freight motors"

lorija799@aol.com

>What about the Kennasaw Museum? I know some of the Glover patterns were saved, have they been inventoried ? What's there? Where can I get more info?
Mike Nix


http://members.aol.com/aqualieb/projectspage.html
2rivers@upstel.net

> PS A steam locomotive is NEVER referred to
> as a motor.

Except when individual-axle drives were developed which has got the farthest on the German 19 1001, a Mikado with a two-cylinder V motor on each driver axle. With this type of locomotive, I found the notion of a "steam motor" brought up.

Sorry for digressing from the original topic of the thread but I couldn't resist ...

Cheers, Jochen

JochenTrost@cs.com

Mike - check out reply to Bob Yargers inquiry above.

Email me off list if I can help.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

It's part of the VERNACULAR thats fun:
Most steam powered LOCOMOTIVEs have between two and six steam ENGINES on them.
My diesel LOCOMOTIVE has (in the vernacular), two diesel motors, four electric traction motors, four air motors (windshield wipers) and two starting motors(windings in the main gen). If I talk to the diesel mechanic he says the "motors" need work. When I order parts from Cummins they are for the "engines". It's all part of the culture of the automobile creeping into railroading.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

O.K. That is all cool, and thanks for all the information.
I realized that I had put "motors" instead of "engines" in my reply, but I could not conceive of steam locomotives being associated with the Indy 500.
Now that I know that did happen, the question remains: What happened to those locos?

> Now that I know that did happen, the
> question remains: What happened to those
> locos?

As far as the individual-axle drive is concerned, the 19 1001 entered road tests in 1941 and regular service in mid May 1943. From mid November 1943 through August 1944 she was out of service for preparation and installation of a replacement V motor for the third axle. After one week of service in September, she was sidelined by a leak at a piston in the motor of the 4th axle. A hit by bombs on October 13 ended her service career. She was restored after the war and shipped to the US. After being exhibited with other German engines in Fort Monroe in 1946, she later moved to Fort Eustis where she was scrapped in mid 1952. There had been no interest in the US for buying her, and not enough interest and/or funds on hand for shipping her back to Germany.

Before her construction, a reconfiguration of an existing 2-60 into a 2-6-4 with individual-axle drives was worked on but never completed. The idea for a 2-cylinder V steam motor was originally considered for driving auxiliary equipment on a steam rail car.

Other attempts at individual-axle drives date as far back as 1907/8 in Italy. Manufacturers in Britain, the Soviet Union and France have shown some activity in the field in the 1930s, all using some form of gear drive to couple the steam motor output to the axle. Then there are the steam-electrics which began with the Heilmann engines in 1893 and include a number of well-known steam turbine-electrics in the US. The name of the steam motor game in the 1930s was the search for a design that got rid of the pounding effect of the traditional steam cylinders and rod drives. The direct-drive V motor seems to have been pretty good at that.

Cheers, Jochen

JochenTrost@cs.com

To do the narrow-gauge reference of the original thread justice, I should mention that three of the English engines were 2-4+4-2 built for the Columbian State Railways (?) in meter gauge, and had all 6 axles each driven by a two-cylinder compound steam motor coupled by gears to the axle.

Jochen

JochenTrost@cs.com

I just posted an update to my webpage on 19 1001, the "V-8 steam locomotive". It now includes a drawing of one of the steam motors, and other information.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> As far as the individual-axle drive is
> concerned, the 19 1001 entered road tests in
> 1941 and regular service in mid May 1943.
> From mid November 1943 through August 1944
> she was out of service for preparation and
> installation of a replacement V motor for
> the third axle. After one week of service in
> September, she was sidelined by a leak at a
> piston in the motor of the 4th axle. A hit
> by bombs on October 13 ended her service
> career. She was restored after the war and
> shipped to the US. After being exhibited
> with other German engines in Fort Monroe in
> 1946, she later moved to Fort Eustis where
> she was scrapped in mid 1952. There had been
> no interest in the US for buying her, and
> not enough interest and/or funds on hand for
> shipping her back to Germany.

> Before her construction, a reconfiguration
> of an existing 2-60 into a 2-6-4 with
> individual-axle drives was worked on but
> never completed. The idea for a 2-cylinder V
> steam motor was originally considered for
> driving auxiliary equipment on a steam rail
> car.

> Other attempts at individual-axle drives
> date as far back as 1907/8 in Italy.
> Manufacturers in Britain, the Soviet Union
> and France have shown some activity in the
> field in the 1930s, all using some form of
> gear drive to couple the steam motor output
> to the axle. Then there are the
> steam-electrics which began with the
> Heilmann engines in 1893 and include a
> number of well-known steam turbine-electrics
> in the US. The name of the steam motor game
> in the 1930s was the search for a design
> that got rid of the pounding effect of the
> traditional steam cylinders and rod drives.
> The direct-drive V motor seems to have been
> pretty good at that.

> Cheers, Jochen


Forgotten Experiment: the V-8 Steam Locomotive

james1@pernet.net