Tom, on your point of any competent machine or boiler shop being about to do work relating to steam locos, I beg to differ. Specialized equipment, especially old and antiquated equipment, requires specialized knowledge to repair and maintain properly. Would you trust your auto-mechanic to work on your airplane engine? The same can be said for steam loco boilers. When you consider the danger inherent in bottling up that much energy, it is probably not a great idea to let any old Joe with a welder and a lathe tackle the project. I have seen a number of botched jobs on steam locos where the failures stem from lack of knowledge and experience on the part of the contractor. The work was done in good faith but on the "best guess principle" and resulted in lost time and increased costs overall. To reiterate Kelly's point, there are enough skilled workers around to meet the demand, but those skills could be made more productive if they were not frequently used to undo someone else's mistakes.

Maybe I was a little misunderstood. My main point is that there are many options before considering shipping a locomotive to China. I am not advocating simply hiring a local shop over steam locomotive specialists. I would also never advocate using local boiler/machine contractors with a knowledgeable steam person leading the project. Assuming we're talking about a non-profit museum I think the most economical means involves using volunteer labor for as much as possible under the direction of a competent project leader and then pull in contracted shops for work that goes beyond that of the volunteers.

My other point was a if you had enough money anything is possible. Working in industry I've sent out over 100 safety and relief valves on a truck at 3PM and had them all disassembled, inspected, seats machined, springs replaced as needed, and back at 7AM the next day to be installed. I've also supervised the installation of a large water tube boiler in a little over a day.

We are fortunate that we have some of the best steam locomotive specialists in the world able to do top notch work. I would never downplay the level of expertise available by using these experts, many who post here.

I have read these postings with interest. Having managed (in the past) a small volunteer museum taking on the major job of a locomotive over haul I feel I have some perspective on this. I look also at the recent purchase of the K&K locomotive by Mr Conrad and the statements made to support that acquisition.

One issue, at least here in NJ, is finding volunteers with solid mechanical experience. "Why" can be a whole different discussion but they just don't come out of the wood work anymore. Funding to support a major overhaul is the second significant issue. Should a boiler be sent to Strasburg for an overhaul? I'd say yes, but funding may be the reason why its not. As a rough guess, even with a mix of paid and volunteer labor, a full restoration of a narrow gauge locomotive of decent size, say up to 70 tons, is about $500K, give or take a $100K.

So, what are the options? Can sending a locomotive, or some portion of it, to China make a restoration more feasible from a cost and schedule stand point? As I understand it, the cost to ship one of the 30" gauge 0-8-0 engines from China to the US is about $35K plus trucking here in the US so that provides an idea on shipping. Can China do this work? Are they even interested? I have no idea off hand. There is one outfit that seems to market such a capability.

The other comment I saw within this string is the idea that there may already be too many steam locomotives operating in the USA. Or that having steam is not important. I think it was Ross Rowland who stated that a train pulled by a diesel is just a train, but if pulled by a steam locomotive its an event. I firmly believe that. I was up at the Bel-Del two weeks ago and stood by as a dad showed his 5 year old son the steam locomotive, pointing to the smoke and such from the locomotive. It was just sitting there, quietly, with the pump going, generator winding away, doing what a steam engine does best. Do we have enough running? No way.

There are many engines sitting cold today that were operational prior to the Ohio incident. Money and skilled man power are needed to get these engines hot again. We should focus on how to make that happen. How? Here's one idea. For those that own Cagneys, and similar park sized trains, you may have heard of a manufacturing company (well known in these circles) who is building a batch of boilers which saves a ton of money per boiler. Key is that the inspections are done on many boilers at one time rather than re-inventing the wheel for every new boiler.

With some imagination, which might include China, and via joint efforts amongst museums similar to the Cagney example cited above, perhaps there is a way to return more steam to the rails more affordably, and perhaps a bit faster. And yes I'd prefer that it be done with US workers.

J.R.

While the Chinese steam people have been working on steam for their entire life, they've also been doing it the Chinese way... Even if you could efficiently communicate with them, you'd have problems with their methods not being the same as our methods.

Imagine this for example: "Here's your new locomotive sir. We use the best lead paint we had to get that bright red color, and the asbestos will keep the boiler very well insulated..."

> Sorry, fans. Most members of the public don't care what's
> on the front of the train. Railfan business by itself will not
> support any kind of train operation.

That depends on the location and the operation. The GCRY is a bit unique in that it has a destination. It's more of a commuter line than a tourist railway. Sure, folks ride it because it's a train ride, but for many of them the real reason is that it's a way to get to the canyon.

Let's look at another example. The Strasburg RR is one of the finest operations around, but in this case the equipment is the main drawing card. Let's say they decided to change to F40's and air conditioned coaches next summer. What do you think that would do to the patronage there? My guess is that it would plummet, since folks come there to ride old fashioned steam trains through Amish farmlands.

Strasburg has been an industry leader in reinventing themselves as their market has changed. Amish farmlands have become Potemkin Amish farmlands providing happy tourists with a passing glimpse of what the area was before it was largely supplanted with outlet malls and similar suburban detritus. Being a top quality time machine for a short impulse time and money commitment ride has worked well for them - but about breaks even without the additional income generated from other associated revenue streams, at least that is what I have been told. I'd welcome better information.

As a time machine, steam is an integral part of the brand and mix.

dave