Just out of curiousosity, I was wondering if Pullman Cars carried numbers in their service life? Or, were their names enough for Pullman to keep track of them.

wilkidm@wku.edu

In Addition: we have a NKP/NS/WLE office car that was rebuilt from a sleeper. Most of the journal box lids are stamped "pullman". How do you go about tracing one of these?


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Just out of curiousosity, I was wondering if
> Pullman Cars carried numbers in their
> service life? Or, were their names enough
> for Pullman to keep track of them.

I can tell you that on components removed for evaluation on our car, the "Red Oak" nothing is stamped, or stenciled but the car name, and any match marks having to do with that component. Our car was later Tourist Car 3116, we have found nothing marked with that number except exterior lettering.

Joshua Tree and Southern Railroad Museum
wsflco@earthlink.net

> Just out of curiousosity, I was wondering if
> Pullman Cars carried numbers in their
> service life? Or, were their names enough
> for Pullman to keep track of them.

The "standard" Pullman cars carried names and it seems that for most of the life of the Pullman company that these names were adequate for record keeping purposes. When Pullman took over Wagner it had to rename many of the Wagner cars to avoid conflects.

The "tourist" cars were assigned numbers. This is probably because they were not considered to be the same as the "standard" cars.

At during the late 1940s the Pullman comany assigned numbers to the cars that they were then operating (either owned by them or leased from the railroads). This number was called the "car code" and it shows up in the March, 1961 "Discriptive List of Cars." The number was probably assigned after the separation of the Pullman Company from Pullman-Standard.

The numbers do not show up in the November, 1950 list of cars. But the numbering pre-dates that issue.

The code numbers when assigned were done alphabetically with gaps left at the end of each letter of the alphabet. If a car was renamed the number was not changed. New cars got the next available numbers after assigned numbers for that letter of the alphabet.

These numbers were usually painted on the INSIDE of the electrical locker of the car. This was near where the record cards were kept.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> Pullman cars were identified by numbers on their heavy castings (such as the trucks) the date, year, and order number were all cast in, and should make it possible to track the heritage of any car.

b.hume@rogers.com

Was this also true of the World War 2 era Pullman Troop Sleepers? We have a car from the first group built by Pullman (numbered 7000-8199) that was resold to the Wabash and turned into a M-O-W car. The Wabash apparently sandblasted the car before repainting it with Wabash yellow Maintenance of Way paint and assigning it Wabash #5719, and we have been unable to determine the cars original Pullman number (the original high speed trucks are still on the car.) Thanks.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum)

midlandblb@cs.com

I beg to differ. The trucks carry the casting date and PATTERN number of the truck casting, which is not related to a given car. During an overhaul, the truck frames did not necessarily wind up under the same car. The car name was stencilled on the side of the truck frame after the car was completed and painted.

The number stencilled in the electrical locker is the Plan Number of the car, which designates the interior configuration. For example, Plan 4090 was an 8-section, 1-drawing room, 3-double bedroom car. Plans 4090-A, 4090-B, etc. had minor variations of the basic Plan, mainly such things as corridor window placement, etc.

Each group of cars built had a Lot number assigned, and that was placed on each car with a small cast plate (like a mini-builder's plate), usually inside the linen locker of the car. It just had the numerals of the Lot number on it.

The best way to determine a Pullman's original name is to find the stamped or painted name on the reverse side of interior parts-- window sills or sash frames, door edges, etc. Some cars that had two names (due to later rebuilding) have both names on the parts.

As for the original number of a converted troop sleeper, good luck, as the saying goes. RMNE has three (two NH express cars and one DL&W bunk car) and none of them have any evidence of original numbers that we could find. I suspect tracing those old troop sleeper numbers would only be possible if an old Defense Plant Corp. or railroad roster or purchase order for the surplus cars could be found. And I suspect that stuff is at the bottom of a landfill some place.

hpincus@mindspring.com

> I beg to differ. The trucks carry the
> casting date and PATTERN number of the truck
> casting, which is not related to a given
> car. During an overhaul, the truck frames
> did not necessarily wind up under the same
> car. The car name was stencilled on the side
> of the truck frame after the car was
> completed and painted.

Need to get my copy back of Pullman Standard Vol 1 by Randall and Ross, I was pretty sure there was a mention of the truck serial numbers there, I just looked at it less than 30 days ago, anyone else got a copy and can verify?


b.hume@rogers.com

> Need to get my copy back of Pullman Standard
> Vol 1 by Randall and Ross, I was pretty sure
> there was a mention of the truck serial
> numbers there, I just looked at it less than
> 30 days ago, anyone else got a copy and can
> verify?

I was referring to the heavyweights... I don't mess with those new-fanled lightweight cars!!!!

hpincus@mindspring.com

I removed a window and all that was stamped on it was "berth". Both sides still had the planer marks on them so it was not a case of wearing it off. Doors are steel with nothing stamped on them. Any suggestions as to where to go next ??????


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> I removed a window and all that was stamped
> on it was "berth". Both sides
> still had the planer marks on them so it was
> not a case of wearing it off. Doors are
> steel with nothing stamped on them. Any
> suggestions as to where to go next ??????

Look at bottom of windowsills, berth sections, anything with upholstery on it. Try the windows in the end doors.

What kind of car are you working on?

hpincus@mindspring.com

This was a sleeper converted to an office car NKP/NW/WLE. There is nothing left of the bunks or seats except the upper tracks on a couple of remaining bulkheads and the upper berth heart shaped light fixtures. The only thing left that says Pullman are the journal box lids on the 6-wheel trucks. To kinda date them the trucks are one-piece cast with intgral pedestals. Almost all the inside trim is metal and it has a railroad roof with no clerestory windows, just circular ports leading to the roof ventilators. Thanks


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> This was a sleeper converted to an office
> car NKP/NW/WLE. There is nothing left of the
> bunks or seats except the upper tracks on a
> couple of remaining bulkheads and the upper
> berth heart shaped light fixtures. The only
> thing left that says Pullman are the journal
> box lids on the 6-wheel trucks. To kinda
> date them the trucks are one-piece cast with
> intgral pedestals. Almost all the inside
> trim is metal and it has a railroad roof
> with no clerestory windows, just circular
> ports leading to the roof ventilators.
> Thanks

A couple of additional thoughts: Is there any listing of this business car in the roster section of Rehor's "NKP Story"? Have you tried contacting the NKP Historical Society for info?

Are the any window sash left? If they are double metal (brass) sash, then the car is a late (1929-31) built heavyweight. Two vestibules? A/C duct on side of roof? Heavy, rolled-section belt rail? Are the trucks top-equalized or drop-equalized? These might be clues.

Was this car converted to a business car, or to a "yard office" type of office car?

hpincus@mindspring.com

If it's OK with you, I will e-mail further details as I collect them .... Thanks


lamontdc@adelphia.net