Well do we know yet,,,,,,,,,,,,, just who did C&O 614 at the auction this past THURDAY,,I am sure this is a question on a few people's minds????????????? thank you Pat CPRH1b@attbi.com............

CPRH1b@attbi.com

I'm sure if someone antied-up we'd have heard about it. No keeping secrets in this business.

Its almost funny (if it weren't sad), some 25+ years ago, a dispute between the High Iron Co. and the D&H lead to the premature retirement of Steamtown's NKP 759. Not unlike today, there were unpaid bills, and dispute erupted. The D&H would eventually pull the bottled up (full of water) 759 out of the Colonie (NY) shop and place it in outdoor storage during a paticularly cold winter. The resulting freeze did severe damage and the 759 was never completely repaired.

Not pointing fingers or flaming here, but history is apparently repeating itself. At least the 614 has been properly mothballed and is under gaurd at NJT, so, while it may take years to resolve, I don't think the 614 will be damaged or too much worse for wear.

The only thing I saw on Trainorders is that the "successful bidder" did not have the money ???????


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> I'm sure if someone antied-up we'd have
> heard about it. No keeping secrets in this
> business.

> Its almost funny (if it weren't sad), some
> 25+ years ago, a dispute between the High
> Iron Co. and the D&H lead to the
> premature retirement of Steamtown's NKP 759.
> Not unlike today, there were unpaid bills,
> and dispute erupted. The D&H would
> eventually pull the bottled up (full of
> water) 759 out of the Colonie (NY) shop and
> place it in outdoor storage during a
> paticularly cold winter. The resulting
> freeze did severe damage and the 759 was
> never completely repaired.

> Not pointing fingers or flaming here, but
> history is apparently repeating itself. At
> least the 614 has been properly mothballed
> and is under gaurd at NJT, so, while it may
> take years to resolve, I don't think the 614
> will be damaged or too much worse for wear.

Didn't 759 run again after that D&H dispute?

Alan Levy


AlanL759@aol.com

> Didn't 759 run again after that D&H
> dispute?

The dispute was between Steamtown Foundation (Robert Barbera, Director) and D&H; High Iron Co. had no involvement at all.

After the October 1973 Boston-Montpelier round trip, 759 was run light to Rouses Point, NY, and put into the enginehouse there (in late November), in anticipation of a Spring 1974 Steamtown Foundation trip on the D&H.

There is more to the story, and a lawsuit and counter-suit resulted, with the suits being settled in March 1976, the day before the trial.

As I recall, the primary damage was to the superheater units, Worthington pump(s), and possibly an air compressor.


hpincus@mindspring.com

"At least the 614 has been properly mothballed and is under guard at NJT"...

Forgive me if this statement conjures up bad memories of what Chicago's METRA did to Dick
Jensen's GTW #5629 a few years back! It's a great example of what can happen when stored steamers become unwelcome guests of commuter agencies while their owners take too much time pondering their disposition. I'm sure the issues are/were different, but could history repeat itself?

http://iltransit.com
davew833@yahoo.com

Thanks for the correction there, about the High Iron Co. Wasn't trying to point any fingers want to make that clear. From what I understand the 759's cylinders, which were one of the main concernes, were not damaged during the incident.

As I said, its too bad how things like this happen, the 759, the Jenson Engines et al... when disagreements arise between operators and host railroads, terrible things can happen. Thank goodness the 614 has been well looked after and will surley fare better in the end.

Dave,

I can see the surface of similarity, but AFAIK in the case of #614 there have been attempts by the owner to solve the dispute.

The coming change of management at NJ Transit may also bode well for some solution. Right now they have bigger fish to fry as we finally have a governor who is holding appointees accountable (imagine that!).

Ross does not have the same track record as Jensen, and honestly, they do not belong in the same sentence. Jensen never pulled off what Ross has.

As we all get giddy about AFT #4449, remember who pulled off the big show in the first place all those years ago.

#614 will be fine.

And if she sits until I hit the lottery, so be it.


Rob Davis

trains@robertjohndavis.com

Very good thoughts Rob, I had wanted to post on the Jensen engines but thought better of it. Yes, I really hope that NJT and Ross have it better. I would not want to see a picture of 614 in the back pages of Railfan & Railroad being cut up. Let's hope she gets either returned to Ross at some point or have a good new home.

Jeff Lisowski
West Chester, Pa



unfunkyufo76@hotmail.com

It occured to me that maybe 614 could live at Steamtown on a lease arrangment and stretch her legs once in a while on the excursions and a few barnstorming trips around the tri state area. It could be a great opportunity to add the word steam to Steamtown in a big way. Any takers?


bigboy4884@charter.net

Where would they store 614? She's too big for the turntable, and I don't think she'll fit inside the roundhouse. I remember at the grand opening when Milw. 261 came to visit, she stuck out of the stall. I don't think keeping her outside would be too good either. Also, does Steamtown have a wye where they can turn the locomotive? I've been there numerous times, but never have seen a wye. I've heard of one, but never saw it.

J.T.
jtjjtb@aol.com

Could be a very good idea John. Only one thing holding that back...money. Plain and simple. I think 614 would be a good home. Great looks, pulling power to spare and a lot of life left in her. We can only dream right?

Jeff Lisowski
West Chester, Pa

unfunkyufo76@hotmail.com

Oops! I meant Steamtown would be a good home.

unfunkyufo76@hotmail.com

Also, does Steamtown have a wye
> where they can turn the locomotive? I've
> been there numerous times, but never have
> seen a wye. I've heard of one, but never saw
> it.

I vaguely remember reading about a wye out over the bridge under which visitors enter the park (assuming they don't enter through the mall), but I don't believe its very big. Perhaps a visiting engine derailed there at the grand opening? Sorry for the vague memory that may be completely inaccurate.

mrwowak@yahoo.com

Hello All

I won't comment on the pro's or con's of the 614 and Steamtown, but I can fill in a little about the wye. The wye is located off Steamtown property to the west of the Bridge 60 tower (owned by The Lackawanna County Railroad Authority). The wye is actually comprised of the DL railroad and the Canadian Pacific. The North and South Legs set on top of Bridge 60 (the bridge you drive under going into the park) and the "west" leg if you can call it that is the CP, former D&H, former DL&W mainline.

The North and South (aka the DL portions) of the wye were rebuilt around four years ago. There was some trouble with some of the Steamtown Grand Opening movements (before the rebuild), but those issues have since been addressed.

P.S. The roundhouse would not hold the 614 and tender,as it would not fit the 261 or the 2102. The locomotive shop however would.

bing@epix.net