I was corresponding by e-mail with an associate over the possibilities of the change in EBT operation/administration. This associate has plenty of real-world and preservation rail experience.

My suggestion was that maybe somehow EBT restoration and track work might qualify as a "shovel-ready" project for federal stimulus money, by some long shot. His response: "One of the problems with government grant projects is the requirement to pay Davis-Bacon wage rates, which will probably put the cost of replacing ties somewhere around $75 each."

Hmmmmm. Do we know any unemployed track-gang "volunteers" willing to work for a spell, and then donate some of their pay back? More seriously, has any group managed to somehow avoid or sidestep such ludicrous wage requirements while still garnering the funds needed from a government program?

Sure--every ISTEA, TEA-21 and NEXTEA transportation enhancement grant ever awarded to a rail preservation project. The pure preservation projects are generally exempt from Davis-Bacon--consult your state DOT for details.

Ahhh, but here is the rub with this round of 'stimulus' money. At least in NJ any project must report employment numbers via a webpage to the State of NJ. THis will then be sent to the feds. They want to track the increase in employment more closely than ever before. Even the suppliers to the contractor must report their employment figures. Even I, as an engineer working for a government agency, must report my work hours allotted to stimulus projects via this web-page. My job is not being paid in any way by stimulus money, and these projects are actually extra to my regular work load. But none the less my man hours will be reported....doesn't that improperly inflate the the number of people put to work? hmmmm.

In any case, I doubt you will be able to circumvent the labor rules if you are planning to publicly bid the work.

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So let me get this straight... They're giving you the stimulus money for free, but you still have a problem with complying with the program rules? Good grief... Did it ever occur to you that the grant they give you will have the "ludicrous" wages factored in?

Also, people who complain about prevailing wage jobs don't seem to understand the contracting business. Sure, $30 or $40 is a pretty high wage, but keep in mind that construction work is seasonal, and most employees are laid off after the work is completed. The high wages help them survive during winters and slow periods...

As the others have posted, anyone who works on the job will be paid those wages. If you're seriously considering requiring that they "donate the money back to the railroad" better read the laws about that sort of thing. You could end up in federal prison.

Uh, let's see... If the project didn't get done, you wouldn't be working those hours. If it does get done, you work additional hours to handle the project engineering. Those additional hours are only needed because of this project, and are reported as being created by the project.

What part am I missing? Isn't the project creating more work for you?

Sure, not all of it is Federal funds. That's how stimulus packages work. The laborers will do the same thing, paying rent or mortgages, buying food and clothing, other durable goods, eating in local resteraunts and bars etc. If they weren't getting paid, they wouldn't be spending that money. The whole idea is to get cash flowing.

BUT, assuming the engineer is on salary, as most professional government workers are, he will get no additional pay for working those additional hours, so the hours are benefitting only the state and contributing absolutely nothing to the economy (no additional cash is flowing here). Sounds less than truthful to me.

I don't know all the federal rules about salary and overtime. So are you saying they can make saleried people work overtime without compensation?

Yes, most Engineers and many other saleried white collar folks are payed a flat salary, and don't make anything for overtime. In some instances, it is even expected that you will work overtime as part of your job.

(Off topic, but I will never forget the plant engineer I heard about who kept a set of plant drawings under his bed. When he got the usual call in the middle of the night, he would just reach under his bed for the drawing he needed. Whata life....)

During my careers in education and in shortline railroad management, I regularly worked well over 40 hours a week and received no additional compensation beyond my regular salary. I understood going in that I would work extra hours and was ready to do so. In my current career in the media, I am paid by the hour and prohibited from working more than 40 hours a week by edict from management. We peons work our 40 hours and go home, while the managers often work 50 hours or more.

As for Davis-Bacon wage rates, at one railroad I worked for, when we were required to pay those rates, laborers were making nearly twice their regular wage and were taking home more every week than I was as their supervisor. Their rates were based on those at the nearest union hiring hall, which was in a city 50 miles away, and those rates were much higher than any area construction company or manufacturer could afford. I certainly didn't begrudge them the pay they were getting, since my company was not paying them. The taxpayers (including me) were, and it was a temporary situation. Had we been required to pay those wages regularly, our company would have gone belly-up quickly.

[quote="survivingworldsteam]
Yes, most Engineers and many other saleried white collar folks are payed a flat salary, and don't make anything for overtime. In some instances, it is even expected that you will work overtime as part of your job.[/quote]

I am aware that's how private industry does it, and in fact I've been there and done that...

What I was questioning is whether it applies to federal workers. I thought they had pretty strict rules about that sort of thing. I also know that they were even cracking down on private companies, for example I seem to recall that here in Seattle Nordstrom's got into trouble over its long-standing tradition of salaried employees putting in lots of unpaid overtime.

I work in contracting, and yes it's common for Salaried people to work lots of overtime. It's also common for them to get bonuses, comp time, or some other compensation to make up for it.

Since the government doesn't do bonuses, I didn't know if they treat salaried employees the same way.

Having worked at both state & federal jobs........ The most common type of overtime compensation is comp time. It is technically supposed to be taken on an hour-for-hour basis, but many departments and individual supervisors allow informally for time-and-a-half.

These are two different career paths being compared. The hourly union job hits a good pay rate, and then stops with little career advancement opportunity. The salaried professional job has a career path that, with some luck, leads to top management. Each individual has to judge whether they are career advancement material and whether the years of hard work at a lower net wage will likely lead to higher paying management positions much later in life. One also has to consider which career path will lead to a job compatible with one's physical abilities as they age.

A couple of clarifications to my post. I am paid a salary, overtime hours are given as straight comp time off. But we have also been asked to take up to two weeks fulough time this year to help the budget...

I have a full workload with our regularly scheduled projects and would be at this job regardless of any stimulus projects. In my personal opinion, my hours toward a stimulus project are not "creating" a new job, but will be reported as such. For the contractors and suppliers I have no problem with their reporting, but for most government managers of these projects I feel it a little unrealistic to report those as jobs created.

One more item I failed to mention with the stimulus money for public infrastructure improvements; the funds are a re-imbursement grant. So you have to budget and spend your own money first. Upon substantial completion and acceptance of portions of the project you will be re-imbursed by the Feds.

There are other funding sources within the overall stimulus package that are specifically for rail use that I am not familar with. Those may work differently, but it is unrealistic to try and circumvent the prevaling wage rates rules. I would think the prevailing wage rates in the area of the EBT are substantially lower than they are elsewhere just due to the remote are its in.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Since the stimulus package is federal funds, then the job is actually under Davis-Bacon Wages. They're the same for large parts of the state.

I'm not that familiar with Pennsylvania, but out here on the West Coast, it often costs more for projects in remote areas. The reason is that the Davis Bacon wages out here include "zone pay". Since you're not likely to find a skilled journeyman workforce just sitting around a remote area waiting to be hired, you'll have to bring them in from the nearest big city. If it's a remote area, that can mean lots of travel time. To reflect that, zone pay designates certain areas, such as city hall in Portland to be the home base. If the project is 25 miles or less from city hall, you pay the base wage. 25 miles to 50 miles may be $1.00 per hour more, 50 to 100 may be $2.00 per hour additional etc. This reflects the additional costs the crew incurs getting to and from work each day.

Once again, the wages and benefits are based on the concept this work is seasonal and temporary in nature. It's not like they can relocate to your town for a 2 month project, so they end up driving long distances each day. Once the project is done, so is their job. So the labor costs of $40 or $50 reflect the fact that many of these people don't work year round with no time off.