Puns in subject from me, story from Railpace's online rumor mill:

CSX IS PRESENTING SPONSOR OF THE 175 YEAR CELEBRATION: AMERICA ON TRACK: CSX has joined the B&O (Baltimore & Ohio) Railroad Museum as a presenting sponsor of 175 Years: America on Track, celebrating the 175th anniversary of railroading in America. CSX's $500,000 gift will enable the B&O Railroad Museum to offer special exhibitions, programs, a rail excursion and special events for families, children, railroad enthusiasts and visitors from around the world interested in America's heritage. "We are proud to partner and celebrate with the B&O Railroad Museum as they embark on this significant celebration," said Michael J. Ward, president of CSX Transportation and a Baltimore native. "As an international transportation company that provides rail transportation in 23 states, Washington, D.C. and Canada, we celebrate the birthplace of American railroading and all it has taught us as well as salute what the future holds for railroading and the nation." Through July 2003, the B&O Railroad Museum will host this national event with a series of monthly events and the debut of new educational programs and exhibits. Most recently, the Museum unveiled Portraits of American Railroading, an exhibit that includes images of important American railroad figures from the Smithsonian Institution's National Portrait Gallery. The 16-month celebration culminates with The Fair of the Iron Horse 175 - a10-day pageant of rare locomotives and citywide festival at Carroll Park in July 2003. "We are delighted that CSX has joined us to help show the world how railroading touches each of our lives everyday. Through their generosity, visitors from around the world will have the opportunity to take part in an enriching cultural and educational experience as we celebrate the anniversary of America's first railroad," said Courtney Wilson, executive director of the B&O Railroad Museum. (CSXT - posted 3/21)

Lets see if maybe we can get a look at some big steam here in the East. Maybe AFT #4449 will make it East again.

Tom

Forgotten Delaware
tom@forgottendelaware.com

That would be interesting!

It would be a tough call, authentic Daylight or AFT?

> Lets see if maybe we can get a look at some
> big steam here in the East. Maybe AFT #4449
> will make it East again.

> Tom

> That would be interesting!

> It would be a tough call, authentic Daylight
> or AFT?

CHESSIE ALL THE WAY!!!!!! Put the cat right on the nose!


Rob



trains@robertjohndavis.com

> That would be interesting!

> It would be a tough call, authentic Daylight
> or AFT?

My suggestion would be for AFT eastbound, then find a good CSX paint shop, and after the even make it Authentic Daylight for the return trip. That would really create interest.

Hopefully Skyfire won't helicopter the entire country BOTH directions. :)

Greg Scholl


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> Lets see if maybe we can get a look at some
> big steam here in the East. Maybe AFT #4449
> will make it East again.

Ummmmmmmm..... again?

Remember 1975 and 1976? (Oh, that's right, I'm one of the old fuddy-duddies on this site along with Wayne and Bennett... I just refuse to grow up, that's all....)

The (alleged) reason 4449 did not haul the AFT in the Northeast was tight clearances on much of the route. I remember specifically that one of THE big issues was clearances under the catenary on the former PRR and NH electrified lines--4449 would have caused arcing.

26+ years later, I do wonder if this is still an issue. The chances that even an American Freedom Train would be allowed on the Northeast Corridor are virtually none. In addition, there have since been major projects to raise clearances for double-stack trains all over the Northeast.

There are still many, many places where 4449 would have to be walked through with many eyeballs inspecting platform clearances, signal masts, etc., but were she confined primarily to modern major freight corridors (say, for example, north through Manassas and Front Royal, Virginia and up through Harrisburg and Allentown instead of through D.C. and Baltimore via either PRR or B&O route), I do think 4449 could put in a token appearance in the Northeast. (I still don't think she'll appear at the B&O Fair of the Iron Horse, though..... Okay, McCormack, make me eat my words! <;-) )


LNER4472@bcpl.net

is through the South, as we all know. After all, she's good to go on BNSF Memphis-Birmingham then NS northward. Remember that wonderful Extra 4449 North Excursion in 1976 from Birmingham-Alexandria (my segment--Toccoa, Ga.-Greenville, S.C.--not very far, but oh so sweet in an open vestibule!) on the SR. A little orange and red paint in a sea of black and white would do a world of good.

Well, we can dream, can't we?


Wrinnbo@aol.com

Would be through Ohio on CSX...should go B&O to make this anniversary thing realistic!

B&O through Cumberland to Harpers Ferry, then Point of Rocks, take the left track to Baltimore.
No need to mess with the NE Corridor is there. The only worry is some of those old tunnels on the B&O. But then I am no expert any these areas, especially Baltimore. All I remember about them is Brooks Robinson doing his Hoover Vacuum impression against our Cincy team in 1970. First day of the series I had tickets to the game and Southern 4501 came through from filming "Fools Parade". Chased the train(black engine with 4 coaches...sweet!)for the entire morning, and headed to the game...which Brooks helped ruin!!
Greg Scholl

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> B&O through Cumberland to Harpers Ferry,
> then Point of Rocks, take the left track to
> Baltimore.
> No need to mess with the NE Corridor is
> there. The only worry is some of those old
> tunnels on the B&O. But then I am no
> expert any these areas, especially
> Baltimore.

Nor am I, but I've hiked the Old Main Line. If any tunnels in the Northeast are too small for 4449, it's those tunnels. CSX does not run double-stack through those tunnels, nor through the Howard Street Tunnel. There are also several curved tunnels--the real Achilles' heel of 4449, I bet--on the line between Pittsburgh and Cumberland, as well as tunnels between Cumberland and Baltimore/DC that are possibly troublesome (i.e. very old, brick-lined, etc.).

I knew 4449 ran at least as far north as Greenville during her stint on SR steam excursion service, and eyeballing the old SR main I see little that I know of that would hamper 4449 except possibly the Lynchburg tunnel.

Playing pure, reckless fantasy a moment--assuming both that 4449 wants to come to Baltimore to meet Thomas and the rest of the party, AND that 4449 requires clearances that exceed the normal hi-cube boxcar (but disregarding side clearance just for argument for now), I can see several high-and-wide routes to the region that would take 4449--the Shenandoah Valley N&W line, the enlarged PRR line across Pa., etc.--even the old D&H from Binghamton, a standard high-&-wide route for years. The bugger is getting it the last lap to Baltimore. Old Main? Out. I think N&W and CSX no longer interchange in any way at Shenandoah Junction (just ripped out, IIRC), so that's out. There's still an all-but-impossible emergency connection between the old PRR Port Road and the B&O Royal Blue route at Perryville, but even if that track is safe, there's still the Howard St. tunnel and several tunnel-like overpasses in Baltimore. Lessee, Hagerstown to the CSX line somewhere around Hager Interlocking, east to Washington DC, around the wye track, up the line to Baltimore, turn at Winans to get the back road to the "A" Yard.........

LNER4472@bcpl.net

Last night in the Trainorders chat room, I was discussing the subject of bringing 3985 to Baltimore with Bob Krieger of the UP steam team. He said they had looked at the drawings of some tunnels, and said it would be a VERY tight fit. I don't understand why tunnels that could handle one of the late and very much lamented EM-1 2-8-8-4's could not handle 3985, but that is the word.

kevingillespie@usa.net

> Nor am I, but I've hiked the Old Main Line.
> If any tunnels in the Northeast are too
> small for 4449, it's those tunnels. CSX does
> not run double-stack through those tunnels,
> nor through the Howard Street Tunnel. There
> are also several curved tunnels--the real
> Achilles' heel of 4449, I bet--on the line
> between Pittsburgh and Cumberland, as well
> as tunnels between Cumberland and
> Baltimore/DC that are possibly troublesome
> (i.e. very old, brick-lined, etc.).

Sandy, I know for a fact that the Old Main Line and the Howard St. tunnel can handle double stacks and tri-level auto racks, because I've been the conductor on trains of those through there before. What you can't do is take either East of the Twin Oaks auto ramp South of Philly because of Boone Tunnel near Darby, PA.

Now, curvature on the OML, that's another matter for an 80" drivered Nothern. I really think that this whole thread is a waste of brain power, as we will be lucky if CSX allows the "William Mason" to run out to Ellicott City and back once or twice. Remember, their donation to the museum does not cover anything related to bringing equipment to Baltimore for the celebration, nor does their anti-excursion/steam policy seem to be waivering.

> I knew 4449 ran at least as far north as
> Greenville during her stint on SR steam
> excursion service, and eyeballing the old SR
> main I see little that I know of that would
> hamper 4449 except possibly the Lynchburg
> tunnel.

> Playing pure, reckless fantasy a
> moment--assuming both that 4449 wants to
> come to Baltimore to meet Thomas and the
> rest of the party, AND that 4449 requires
> clearances that exceed the normal hi-cube
> boxcar (but disregarding side clearance just
> for argument for now), I can see several
> high-and-wide routes to the region that
> would take 4449--the Shenandoah Valley
> N&W line, the enlarged PRR line across
> Pa., etc.--even the old D&H from
> Binghamton, a standard high-&-wide route
> for years. The bugger is getting it the last
> lap to Baltimore. Old Main? Out. I think
> N&W and CSX no longer interchange in any
> way at Shenandoah Junction (just ripped out,
> IIRC), so that's out. There's still an
> all-but-impossible emergency connection
> between the old PRR Port Road and the
> B&O Royal Blue route at Perryville, but
> even if that track is safe, there's still
> the Howard St. tunnel and several
> tunnel-like overpasses in Baltimore. Lessee,
> Hagerstown to the CSX line somewhere around
> Hager Interlocking, east to Washington DC,
> around the wye track, up the line to
> Baltimore, turn at Winans to get the back
> road to the "A" Yard.........


pww57@hotmail.com

This sound like the 99 Railfair and the UP. The UP did sponcer part of RF, displayed several locomotives, and allowed a set number of steam locomotives to operate to the fair. All of the non-UP big locomotives "deadheaded" with out passengers to the fair under thier own power and wheels. The policy of running non-UP steam on excursions hasn't changed. Don't count big steam out at Baltimore just yet.

Smokebox

...I really think that this whole thread is a
> waste of brain power, as we will be lucky if
> CSX allows the "William Mason" to
> run out to Ellicott City and back once or
> twice. Remember, their donation to the
> museum does not cover anything related to
> bringing equipment to Baltimore for the
> celebration, nor does their
> anti-excursion/steam policy seem to be
> waivering.

She could always come by barge via the Panama Canal.

> She could always come by barge via the
> Panama Canal.

Hey now you are on to something...

How about we airlift it also.

Or we can just show videos of it there!

Or we can send in a scale model!

Should they put a kitten on the tender first!
"Lets meow"

Couldn't resist
Greg


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