Not to rain on your parade, but your ideas have holes big enough for me to park coal train in.


1. Moving the cars. What do you do about cars that are unfit to be moved? Are you going to hire a crane and flatbeds (rail or rubber) to move them? Who is going to pay for that? And isn't that money that could be better used to fix them where they are?

2. Storage. You really think these outfits would even agree to store the cars? And for an affordable price? Yeah right. And forget about them letting anyone in to work on them. Way too much liability. And Norfolk Southern does very little for free. They have to watch out for their stockholders. And I personally don't want them playing museum. They have to focus on the moving-big-trains-for-money thing. And by movng the cars into someone else's property, you have now have the lost of control of those cars. "oops, we had a fire and your car burnt up. That's the breaks, sorry." or "that company we hired to scrap those old shelving units got a little carried away. The pieces of that big red engine are over there in those scrap roll-offs". If it ain't on your property, then you might as well not own it.

3. Awareness from the community? Good luck with that in an economically depressed area like Altoona. It's going to take outside assistance and help. And when the only major RR in town has its roots down south and is pretty much all things NOT pennsy, well, good luck sir.

4. The museum has released equipment already. Everyone keeps forgetting the baldwin they sold off. What are they supposed to do? Put for sale signs on the cars? Maybe get an inflatable purple gorilla for the roof? Buy here / pay here? If an organization wants a car they can make a proposal to the museum. Otherwise we'll have outfits buying the stuff to let it rust somewhere else.


5. WIll shrink-wrapping really help that much? The cars are still outside, subject to the weather and humidity. All it does it give the few visitors even less to see. Just seems like a short term solution to a long term problem.

The museum made some bad decisions in the past. But to continuously flog them now is not accomplishing anything. At least the Altoona museum spends some time focusing on RRers than just pieces of metal with wheels. A lot more to the rail industry than a baggage car, folks.

I agree, it's a lousy option. I was only suggesting it instead of simply leaving the car out in the open completely exposed to the elements. The only real factor in favor of using a tarp or a cocoon is the low cost. It also makes for a better presentation, indicating that at least some attempt at preserving it is being made.

Again though, the suggestion was made in the "Well, it's hopefully better than nothing, and could potentially reduce damge" context, not "here's a good way to do this.."

As for visitors having something to see... Do you really want to show them a car with busted out windows and covered in graffiti? A car under restoration? Sure! A car with no funding and no car at all, not even removing broken windows? I'm not sure that's what we want to present.

If you want to display the cars, then at least take minimal steps like removing broken glass and putting in a plywood sheet. Yes, that still looks tacky, but broken glass looks worse, could be a safety issue, and inspires more of the same.

My comments were directed at the neglected rusting hulk out in the back 40 that nobody has touched in years, and with no real plans for doing anything, not a car that's actively being preserved.

> Just seems like a short term solution to a long term problem.

Yes, that was suggested as the first step, not the last...

""Cocoon" the car / locomotive / whatever until you get the time, money and manpower for a restoration." Or, I could have added, until you realize that's not an option and decide to take alternate action on the car. In any case, it's a starting point.

So the alternative is "business as usual"? Just leave the choo choos to rust away in the weather? Really?

They are very bad now...what in 6-8 more years when they will start to literally fall apart?

I am not trying to win an argument but asking a real question...what now? Knowing that there are no "easy answers"...what would YOU (anybody reading this) do about the rust factory at ARRM? Pretend you just woke up and you are the chief cook and bottle washer at ARRM. What do you do in order to get through the day? Wire brush and Bond-o? Coffee and Kringle? Spend all day searching the interwebs?

Let's hear your schemes and dreams!!! (play nice)

T7

I'm going to throw in my two cents here. When I was at Penn State (for a while as an underclassman I lived on the Altoona campus) I had a long time to watch the happenings at ARMM, which affords me a perspective that no one else here has. Under no circumstances has their management been perfect, and the museum isn't everything it could be, but among railfans there's a vocal contingent who just will not give ARMM credit for anything. I won't name names, you all know who you are. I'll ask the rest of you to ignore them for a moment and consider the progress that was made during the period when I was watching, from my first visit during high school in 2002 to graduation a year ago.

Most obvious is the turntable. The bridge was acquired from Jack Showalter as-is-where-is in Virginia. ARMM located it, moved it to Altoona, made repairs as necessary, and installed it. Oh yeah, that big round hole it sits in - wasn't hand-dug. It was spec'd, put out to bid, and built by a commercial contractor in Altoona under ARMM supervision. I watched it done when I was at Penn State Altoona. ARMM staff also found a PRR handrail stanchion (yes there was a standard for those too) and had a local foundry make a bunch more; they now line the sides of the turntable bridge.

The business car, the Duquesne? When I left Pennsylvania after graduation from PSU, it was recently arrived from Who Knows Where, and the variety of primer paint it wore made it look like a giant manila folder. The photo in this thread shows some progress made on paint since then.

The dining car in front of the building I think is a shining example of something ARMM did right. Not only was it moved from off-the-lot storage onto a purpose-built display track during my tenure at PSU, it received quite a bit of attention. The car received new paint with quite a bit of prep work first (I know, because I played a small part in it) and the interior was being prepped for paint as well. ARMM has a PRR dining car rug that has never been walked on, as well as many of the original tables and chairs from that car. The kitchen is complete as well. During the process of weather-proofing the car, the windows on the parking lot side were removed and replaced with Plexiglass to deter rock throwers in what can be a seedy part of town. The roof got some attention as well.

The REX express reefer was moved from storage on the Everett RR south of town, restored, and moved onto the grounds. (To be fair, the NRHS chapter had a hand in this.) If you saw that car pre-restoration like I did, you know someone put a lot of time into it. I'm sure Alan Maples could verify this for any doubters.

The Birch River 10&6 sleeper suffers from its carbon-steel structure being shot. Not a lot ARMM could do about that; it happens, as has been noted elsewhere in this thread.

The 250-ton wreck derrick, while not being in great shape cosmetically, was restored to working order by ARMM's Neil Myers. IIRC it was used to lift a bulldozer out of the turntable pit during construction.

The Robert Hannegan RPO was beginning to get attention in the form of paint when I left Pennsylvania. Oh yeah, this car is roadworthy by the way - when it came to the Museum lot from storage on the Everett RR, NS was able to move it without requiring any waivers. She has roller bearings and the brakes are good.\

The old Baldwin was neither a PRR loco, nor related to ARMM's mission. The fact that it was sold to SMS proves the (valid, I think) point some of you are trying to make about unloading what you can't care for. Ditto for the SW7 that used to be there - it also was a non-PRR loco and had no connection to Altoona. While it regrettably was cut up rather than sold to someone who would care for it, it is no longer an unwanted eyesore on the ARMM lot either. Ditto for the wood reefer, that was just too far gone to save.

While their collection has been slower than most of us would like, my point with all of the above is that they're doing it, and IMO they're doing better than some other, less-maligned-on-RYPN museums. I too would like to see the Jacks Narrows and Harbor Springs restored, but it costs money. From my photo collection I can put together "before" and "after" shots of what I have described here and from that perspective I believe that sooner or later those two cars will get the attention they need, and eventually the GG-1 will get its sorely-needed new paint job. (Oh yeah, that was off-site for awhile too, until previous ARMM management constructed a display track for it.)

So before you knock ARMM, consider the progress that has made as well as the progress that has yet to be made.