Well Mr. Rowland I got my incorrect information as your saing , from one of the Steamtown employee that was helping on the project, getting his hands dirty. Not like you sitting there typing on your computer key board. With an steam locomotive sitting and collecting dust and rust waiting for that big day, that will never come, to fly down the tracks at 80 mph. or better.

Your right ready to tell some one their wrong, but your not perfect eirther.
Ever thought about running 614 on R&N since she's be sitting there for the last 11 years. The Lehigh line would be perfect for her. with a wye on both ends.

Len.
PS. I know the Mods will come down on me, but I had to speek my mind, for once.

I only have one comment to make at this stage of "the game":

Propose a viable alternative for 1361. Emphasis on "viable."

No matter what is done at this stage of the game, a whole bunch of people are going to be upset at the least and downright angry at worst.

Unfortunately, the best I can offer is exactly what's supposedly proposed, reassemble her in Altoona and park her in the roundhouse stall. The only open question is exactly why it's taking so long for that to happen.

Next best, if money's not an object: build a boiler that actually comes up to code and put it on that frame. But then where does she run? Reading & Northern? Strasburg? Rio Grande Scenic?

Here are some up to date photo's of 1361, I took these back in June. This it through my video camcorder.

Len.

And one more.

Len.

Are the change made to the display sign and the comments written on the loco itself not part of its history as an artifact? Might they be deserving of some sort of preservation, just as if original fabricators'/boilermakers' scrawlings were found on the loco somewhere?

Opinions? Sure, send her to Strasburg, finish what has been started, undo what needs fixing and get on with it. I think its pretty safe to say that this is the only way this restoration is going to have a happy ending. The work can still be done in Pennsylvania, by recognised experts. Languishing in pieces is not helping the image of the Railroaders Museum of PA, and the recognised "State Engine of Pennsylvania" deserves better. Not only that, Steamtown is getting a black eye over this project, whether deserved or not. The perception is that this is a failed Steamtown project, and it would be in their best interest to pack it up and ship it out. The sooner they can get #26, and 3713 running the better.

I think Finderskeepers is correct. If I were S'town I'd want it out of there ASAP.

My guess is that the only good shot its got of getting "home" is if Rep. Geist is willing to champion trying to get yet more State of Penna. money allocated to cover the expense of shipping it to Altoona in pieces? How turned off he may have become by the whole disaster may be a key question??

Seems clear that without some source of additional funds it will no doubt sit where it is for Lord knows how long??

Perhaps S'town would be serving its own best interests by cleaning up the signage and adding some appropriate new signage explaining that it's a work in progress???

The way gummits work it's a heavy odds on favorite that it'll sit there for a lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOng time!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

There is an epic budget battle going on right now in Harrisburg over the budget. Many tourism and economic development agencies in the state are fighting for their very survival. It will take some spectacular magic for Rep. Geist to get more money at this point.

I do have a question - PA has customer license plates featuring the 1361. I thought that a portion of the premium for those plates goes towards restoration of 1361. How is that money administered? I have seen these plates on new cars so I assume there is still new money coming in. It would be interesting to know how much it is and what is being done with it now.

This is off Pen dot's web site.
Len.
Pennsylvania's proud railroading
heritage. Whether you love trains, appreciate fine art, or like a unique license plate, you’ll want
this distinctive PENNDOT registration plate that features Grif Teller’s famous 1928 painting When
the Broadway Meets the Dawn. The painting depicts the Pennsylvania Railroad’s Broadway
Limited on its Chicago to New York run as the first light of day breaks along the Juanita River in
central Pennsylvania. The license plate reproduces the rich, deep colors of Teller’s original work
of art, capturing the power and speed of the onrushing locomotive. The Pennsylvania Railroad
played a key role in making the Commonwealth a leader in the railroading industry. The “Pennsy”
story comes alive at the world-class Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, in Strasburg, Lancaster
County and in the collections of the State Archives of Pennsylvania in Harrisburg. Your support
will help underwrite the educational and exhibit programs of the Pennsylvania Historical
and Museum Commission.
SPECIAL FUND
LICENSE PLATE
Fee: $35.00

I found this while I was hunting for information on 1361.
http://www.trainweb.org/horseshoecurve-nrhs/k42.htm

Len.

If it were me, I would deep six the snotty remarks on the signage and chalked on the engine. Whether they are true or not isn't the question. If this is in an area where the public views it, it is uncalled for. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

This topic always turns into a flame war, doesn't it? Here we have one guy, working on a cosmetic restoration of a tired old chooch, telling Ross Rowland when and where he should be running his C&O 614. I can't believe what I'm reading here.

I think Ross has done more for keeping BIG steam alive than anyone else around today, with maybe the exception of the corporate programs like UP and SOU/NS. Think about all the trips with 1238, 1286, 1278 (aka 127), 90, 759, 2101 (aka AFT 1), 614, and possibly a few others. Len, you have probably posted video of many of those trips on You-tube.

I'm sure if there was a good reason to be running 614, she would be running today. But there are some very good reasons why it is not running, involving regulatory, insurance and economic issues. The climate for running steam trips, and even trips with diesels, has changed VASTLY over the last decade or so.

I think Ross has done enough for steam. If he wants to sit at his computer, while in semi-retirement in upstate NY, and offer his opinions as an elder statesman, we should all respect the man, and not tell him what he should be doing with his locomotive.

I think Ross has done enough for steam.

Change "for" to "to" and I'm in agreement.

There's an old saying on the RR. You're only as good as your last move. You could have a 30 yr perfect career, but if you run over one derail, that 30 years goes out the window (or up the stack).

I find it amusing we have a flame war going between someone restoring an old hulk of an engine and someone that owns an old hulk of an engine over the fate of an old hulk of an engine. None of them are steaming. It looks like none of them are going to steam in the distant future. Isn't this the very definition of futility?

The 1361 isn't going anywhere, and won't steam anytime soon. The state of PA is close to 20 days without a state budget. There's talk of furloughing/laying off 800 state workers (with a few Im sure being part of the PHMC - Pa Historical and Museum Commission). Right now, no one really cares about a hunk of metal up in Steamtown. Even if Rep, Geist wanted to do something with it, now is NOT the time. When the state is facing the very reality that services are going to be shut down, and workers will be given IOUs on payday, the debate over a defunct steam engine is pointless.

And anyone else see those photos of CB&Q SD24 the IRM repainted? Beautiful! Oh wait.. it's a diesel. Sorry.

The Mogul and the Greenbriar are both worthy projects. That is not what this thread is about. Let's confine our comments to the K4s, and what can or should be done to secure her for posterity, whether it be static display or operations (YES!). I raised the photo only because is was recent, not to get us into our respective trenches. Enough. Fini. The end. We all love steam and would all love to see her money problems brough to an end with a positive conclusion. Let's talk about that.