the M2's were built in 1910, the Roanoke 1150-1159 were built in 1911 with superheaters. The M2's did not have superheaters when built, made for saturated steam, but I would logically assume since N&W built theirs with superheaters they would have installed superheaters soon after that or before they built the M2cs.
I'm checking Prince's book, I have another book not handy at this moment.

That tag say 1935. At some point the engines went thru some boiler adjustments.
I poured over the N&W historical sites technical references some time ago and found one of the M2's had some work done, there was a series of work done on all the in service engines. If you have a chance to look at 1118 or 1134 look at the lower boiler for some patchwork, this may coincide to the date on the tag, the M2c might have had the same work done.
I would have to re-search out what was done exactly but I'll poke around and come back with more data, but note, the engines would go into servicing and work from time to time to keep them rolling for their looooong stretch of service life.
I do remember seeing the mod work done, perhaps a little bit of prototype kitbashing? Well more like a tweaky fix.

The engines were sold to the scrap yard in 1951 about the time when the N&W acquired 0-8-0's from the C&O, N&W also built their own 0-8-0's copies like they did for the M2's
Most of the M2's when bounced from mainline service (includes M1's and M's) when the mallets came along were pushed to yard service or some branchline runs plus excess engines went to the scrap heap even if they were in fit running condition.
Last operated for the 1118-1134-1151 has to be 1950-1951. Apparently 1151 was being shopped when it was retired, why no superheaters/flues.

My guess is 1118 and 1134 were in running condition when retired as they may had been pushing cars around till the 0-8-0's arrived.

A few M's and M2's stayed on the roster after the 0-8-0's came, however none of those engines were saved when finally diesels won over.

The scrap yard owner (the ole guy) needs to be honored for holding onto these engines somehow.

Thanks for the reply Dinwitty. I'm researching early firebox welding thus the specific questions. I've been through the NWHS Archives and last saw the engines in May '09. I'll be sending you a PM later this week.

Robert Yuill

Considering the last American built steam locomotive was in that group of 0-8-0's, losing it to scrap is another one of those "crimes" against preservation. What a loss. Considering the stockpile of parts, the ready availability of coal, and the relatively young age of the big locomotives, what turned the N&W around, and brought about the press for Dieselization? When was that decision made?

Here's what I can make out from that photo:



So apparently one thing this plate tells us is that in 1935 the engine was assigned to Clare, Ohio. I wonder if she's one of the engines in this 1923 picture of the Clare roundhouse in the N&W archives: http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS5918.JPG

If I had to guess, the third line could be "welders" (that would probably make the most sense), but the fourth character looks more like a B and the sixth at first glance looks like a Y? Is there any evidence of a welded-up frame crack near the plate?

As far as modifications over the years, the M2's certainly had their share of them. They had a reputation for being poor steamers with their large boilers and relatively small grate area, so the N&W was constantly tweaking them to try to get better performance out of them. For example, if I remember correctly, the casting dates on the cylinders of the three survivors from the Virginia Scrap Iron & Metal yard are around 1918 to 1920 (or maybe it was 24), new cylinders after only a decade of service. Modifications were also made to the stack and exhaust nozzle design to improve drafting. Although there were only 11 engines in the Roanoke-built batch, they were originally divided into three sub-classes, M2a, M2b, and M2c, each trying out different enhancements to the original design. 1151 was originally an M2a, which were not superheated as built. The M2a and M2b engines were later upgraded to the M2c configuration with type A superheaters, but I'm not sure off the top of my head when this change took place.

The dates I have for the engines going into the yard are June 12, 1950 for both 1151 and 1134, and June 19, 1950 for 1118. I'm not sure what dates they were last in service for the N&W, but presumably sometime in 1949 or early 1950. It's amazing to think that 611 was brand new when these engines went for scrap!

One phrase: the economics of diesel operations. While it would be years before railroads could eliminate the fireman position, the railroads of the US soon learned that they did not need as many shop personnel. In addition, the need for all the buildings (read: taxes) associated with steam locomotive maintenance would no longer be needed. Railroads would no longer have to bring in coal, or dispose of the ashes as well.

Romi Romano

Agreed, point for point, Romi, but the N&W had stated that they were in the steam business for years, at least until 1970. Suddenly that changed. As far as infrastructure went, everything was in place.

The N&W also had those "run through" servicing facilities that greatly cut down on the downtime between runs.

One reason I had for steam's final demise on N&W was the growing lack of vendors for parts not made in house as other roads retired their steam locomotives.

I did a quick perusal of the online N&WHS document lists. The first reference I saw to superheaters on M2's was 1911, and various stoker references shortly thereafter. (although interestingly enough, none of the survivors appear to have had stokers.) A keyword search on "welded" brought up references to electrically welded firebox sheets starting in 1918. Bob, I'll try to see if there is a plate like you found on either 1118 or 1134. It might be next week, I'll be out of town part of this weekend.

Neat roundhouse! Do plans exist for the structure? Seems like it might be something that a small museum might be able to build themselves.

Les

I find this date, 11/14/1911 in the archives about superheaters on the M2's.

I figure it wouldn't have been long before they would have applied superheaters.

Later revision dates go up to 1954 so obviously reworks would have been done on the engines. N&W did this so they would save money and not have to buy 0-8-0's but eventually caved in buying 0-8-0's.

Underfeed stokers is what I am seeing, different that what I know for 765.
765 has its stokers right under the firebox door with steam sprays to jet the coal out.
The underfeed I see for the M2's is it just pushes up coal from underneath.

Someone may need to take detailed photos on the engines where the stoker might be.

The NWHS archive shows plenty of reports of work done on all the engines, boiler patches and so on, so they certainly been worked on thru the years.

Also:

Change in management / President: Mr. Smith was "pro steam" and his successor, Mr. Saunders was not. First diesels on the property were in 1956...RS-3's with RS-11's and GP-9's soon following in 1957. N&W was all steam in 1955, and done by late 1959, with the last Y6's seeing mine run service into May 1960 in Williamson, WV.

TAN
Hearsay in various articles over the years has it that early 1950s N&W heeded the advice about not offending your best customer. The coal mines seemed to be supplying more revenue than the oil refineries, so that's where N&W bought their locomotive fuel.

Richard- you could interperate more of that plate than I, great!

Gary- If you could check out the 1118 & 1134 for similair plates I would be greatful.

Robert Yuill

Thanks for posting the picture, Robert. I always love it when old iron has a story to tell through its weld repairs, patches, dents and dings, or shop markings and plates like this one.

Thinking about this one some more, I think this almost certainly would have to be some sort of frame repair or strengthening job. Considering that it wasn't uncommon for a locomotive to have its boiler replaced or swapped with another locomotive during its career, it seems unlikely that a plate found on the frame would refer to work done on the boiler.

I checked my other book, the Roanoke built engines were the first example of superheaters on the railroad, so 1151 is significant for that. After the M2c's were built
(1911) the road went thru the process of superheatering the rest of the M2 fleet up to 1920, the changeover wasn't instantaneous as probably the engines went in for servicing. I don't have any exact dates when any engine got them, the NRHS archives gives good clues tho. Once the M2a,b's got superheaters they were all reclassed M2c, and that should be by 1920 done.

Again the engines did go thru servicing and fixes/mods thru the years which kept them servicable. 1118, 1134, 1151 should all show evidence of that.

The boiler is larger than the M's, M1's but they kept about the same firebox size,
this made the engines poor steamers, probably more reason why superheaters got installed. I believe if any one of the engines does get restored to operation it doesn't matter if you do superheaters or not as they won't be operating in the daily railroad demands.

Also the book said 1150-1159 got stokers. Still not sure on the rest.