Got this link via email from a customer today. It was pretty much in the cards for this group. Poor planning from the inception of this group in 1985, although they did make good progress in the late '90's early '00's. Wish they had something I wanted bad enough to go take a look see. Wonder when JJJ will get the W&LE 3960 moved? Property has been sold.

http://www.kikoauctions.com/auction_detail_ppt.php?te=p&ir=4b08e99a7cf19108e86f85396f72bbab#http://www.kikoauctions.com/photos/auctions/10152009-526/primary.jpg
Rob Sundberg

What I would like to know is what happens to those folks that gave funds for a lifetime membership in this group? Guess the Board of Directors didn't say who's lifetime is was when you donated your money and time. I just don't get why you close up shop just because you can't run a train due to insurance. Lots of other groups have equipment restored and presented in a nice environ and have no train to ride. You go for the atmosphere and memories and conversation and making new friends and keeping part of the past alive for others to enjoy. And maybe join in with a membership and donate your time and some fundage to help them out, just cause it's the only thing that is close to you as far as train museum's go. I wonder if they had no funds or members or interest? Seems to me that something could have been salvaged from all of this. Not just the equipment, but the effort of all that contributed to this group from the beginning.
It seems like NE Ohio is the death of all things. Nothing survives or wins here. No Browns, No Tribe, No Cavaliers, No Trolleys, No Steam, No Steel, No Tires.,,, ETC....
Rob Sundberg
1 of the 3 Originators and First VP of STEAM
And I'm pi@@ed off and sad all at the same time.

Porter Collins, one of the last great railroad boomers (and who probably worked for more excursion rail operation than anybody I've ever met) worked with them as his 'last project' before he died in June '08. I've got a "Minerva Scenic Railroad" mug with Porter's private observation car on it that he sent me that's now more of a treasure than ever. I suspect that along with all the obvious issues, Porter's passing was a severe blow, as he was an all-around railroader that could fix things with nothing but a ball of string and a hanger.

Rob,

I understand your frustration. I think the group just gradually petered out over the past 5 years or so. They stopped sending out any kind of newsletter or anything. Dick Dute quit hearing about any activity on the 3960, then out of nowhere, they strike a deal with JJJ to trade it for equipment that never really ran very much.

What really stinks is how the whole 2700 fiasco came unwound in the '90's. Charlie and Terry Bentley, yourself, Dick and Jeff Dute, Gary Antonacci, Larry Volzer among others. There was a lot of talent involved, many of whom I have met after the fact, and am still shocked that it fell apart.

Did you get my PM a few weeks ago (maybe a month and a half now)?

Randy, where is Porter's private car now?

Rob Gardner

Most non profits usually upon dissolution will offer their assets to other 501 c3 organizations. That at least is the ethical thing to do. Anymore it seems that noble ideal is being sidestepped and the auctioneers are instead called in. Who gets the money generated from the auction? If a dime of it ends up in anyone's pocket lawsuits should be filed. There are rules that pertain to the operation of non profits, rules which may or may not have been broken by STEAM by calling an auction.

Actions such as this do nothing but perpetuate the growing negative opinions that are held of nonprofit organizations.

I have no firsthand or other knowledge of this organization. However if any 501(c)3 is in the red, I am guessing the creditors would be pushing to sell assets to re-coup their money. A quick look at via the Guidestar website shows they were operating at a small loss at least in 2007.

In addition any non profit group that disolves is supposed to file for dissolution with the IRS and that shows the money trail. This group does not appear to be at that point yet.

Porter's car is now owned by a person who will NOT scrap it. He has been working on repairing it as time permits. It's up to him if he wants his name posted here.
Ohio the home of historic railway equipment auctions. Please everyone come cart it all away!
This one, The Lake Shore Electric, Ohio Railway Museum, Buckeye scenic a few years back, The Toledo Group also.
It sure does get frustrating sometimes.

Thanks for the update Jack.

But honestly...look at the chamber page. Man. Just for anytime anybody in this business thinks that THEIR town doesn't give them much to work off of in terms of leverage:
http://www.minervachamber.com/attractions.htm

Moral? You really don't want to be the ONLY thing to do in your town.

And it's not just limited to railroads. I was personally stunned by the Geauga Lake amusement park closure. Even across the border in PA, things tend to hang in there tougher than Ohio.

And for the certain gloom & doom feel here, don't forget there's a new roundhouse under construction. And 15 years ago, I was present for a board meeting where it was seriously discussed if the Cuyahoga Valley could hold on with less than 15k riders. Just want people not to forget that incredible turnarounds can happen.

Randy,

What gets me is that we know that Minerva wants this operation to exist and offer its service in town. We know that ORDC supports almost any effort to start up a new tourist operation. We have seen the numbers from the Carroll County tourism board and the shear numbers of visitors to Atwood Lake and the surrounding area are pretty impressive...something like 1 to 1.6 million per year if I recall correctly. If you could just capture 10% you would be happy. Both Minerva and Carrollton wanted this attraction to flourish.

Why in Minerva "insurance" has become a sticking point makes me think it's a smoke screen for something else that no one wants to talk about. At least one legitimate offer for the whole STEAM facility was rebuffed only to hear that someone made a one-time donation to keep them afloat. That was merely months ago. Now we see that everything is up for auction. I know, it's a heresay, but starting a new operation within 100 miles of Holmes County seems to be tough these days. Add in the factor that they already sold the property and won't disclose who it is and it starts to look like a very clearly orchestated dissolution meant to make STEAM dissappear, never to be seen or heard from again in any form.

I'm not a conspiracist, but this one makes me wonder.

Rob

When we are doing feasibility studies one of the 'big deals' if a community/state/authority is actually going to take title to anything is the level of insurance coverage they're going to require on the museum/operator. That's assuming the museum/operator doesn't actually own the line they are running on.

That can vary anywhere from 2 million to 100 million, and is subjective at best, and depends on the mood of the public agencies involved, from local on up. There are states and entities that are very rational and reasonable, and others (particularly that have a pro-trails agenda and their eye on a vacant ROW) that are anything but. So without knowing any real facts here in this case, that's something to be at least aware of.

And I don't think that it applies in Minerva, but heaven help you if the line you are running on is either leased from a Class 1, has trackage rights with a Class 1, or suddenly ends up in the route of a Class 1 with a run-through. Suddenly the big guys don't want tourist trains anywhere around and put that in the operating agreement. That has certainly happened in PA and NY. You may think that the local county or IDA wants you, but that can quickly be overruled.

Wow, I missed the news that Porter passed away. I came to know him when he was on the W&W but lost touch in recent years. He was a very interesting fellow, and was quite kind to responsible buffs.

Rob

Randy,

Thanks for your insite here. In this case, there's no Class I involvement here. This operation was a going concern not that long ago. They weren't bringing in large numbers because it was a largely volunteer effort that just needed more volunteers to keep it going. The W&LE helped the original Elderberry operation get an Appalachian development grant about 10 years ago to get some good wood in the track and get it surfaced up.

Currently the line from Minerva Jct. to Carrollton sees one or two trains a week and I highly doubt it's on weekends. It's hard to believe these communities couldn't bring a little more persuasive pressure on the operators/owners involved here to keep this from happening.

What it will take is someone with some business savvy who ISN'T an ol' jaded railroader who can see the great potential here. In the end, Carroll County remains perched on the edge of Appalachia with a great untapped potential left undeveloped.

Rob