Tom Gears is correct. We learned a long time ago to always leave at least 15% of any given cars capacity empty so as to be able to accomodate groups, families etc., and most importantly to allow some breathing room so folks don't feel "sardined".

The other issue this brings to mind is the need to think through an operation from A to Z and pay careful attention to ALL the details, which at the end of the day will determine the operational success (or lack thereof) of the excursion.

For example I recently rode the 10/3 doubleheaded steam trip out of Alma,Mi. with the 2 Berks. From a serious steam lovers perspective it was very enjoyable, although all day at 25 mph does get a little boring. From a daisy pickers perspective I dare say it was another matter. Due to it taking a LOT longer than planned to wye, service and water the 2 loco's at Cadillac we arrived home more that 2 hours late ( approx. 9:30 pm vs. a 7pm advertised) which to the many daisy pickers ( as always they made up the majority of the 700 plus aboard) especially those with young children, made it a "never again" experience. IMHO the wyeing/servicing drill could and should have been done in a different manner that would have saved considerable time and allowed an OT return trip. Details count!!!

Another lesson we learned a long time ago is ALWAYS operate a full blown dress rehearsal trip when doing a new excursion. This way the weaknesses in the planning show up and can be corrected before the paying guests are aboard. This has saved us a TON of griefe over the years. If you can't "afford" to operate a dress rehearsal than don't run the trip.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Ross, I was hoping you'd see this and post. As someone who has done a lot out there, I'm very interested in your opinions. So to touch on mentioned topics:

Daisy pickers- First off, I laughed when I heard this term. These folks are definately the "meat and potatoes" of running a trip. Most railfans (not all) seem to have short arms and deep pockets and would rather chase a train than ride it and aupport the group. We advertised our trip in Railpace and only received a dozen or so riders from that. We learned that we need to explain exactly what you're getting for your money to them as many don't have a clue as to what they're getting into. Lesson learned.

You also mention selling only 70 percent of seats in a car to avoid the "sardine" effect. This doesn't make sense to me. We had 5 Amfleet cars all 100 percent full and had only 2 complaints from them (both related to riding backwards in the cab car). The cars didn't seem cramped and everyone seemed happy. We'd planned on 68 people per car as Amtrak couldn't gaurantee 70 or 84 seat cars. The Septa cars, on the other hand were 130 seat cars and were definately overfilled as the seating was not what we expected. (That's why the Amfleets were full) I see your point on "overfillable" commuter cars, but not on something like the Amfleets, especially when we assigned seats to keep families together.

You also note doing a "dress rehersal". Come again? Are you saying that when a steam excursion is run, its really run twice? Maybe its because I'm new at this, but it seems like that would be a colossal waste of money. I can understand a mechanical shakedown run with something like a steamer, but with Mr Levin's well maintained E8s, a mechanical run isn't necessary, not to mention NS would probably nix the extra trip. To do this with our trip, we would have had to almost double our ticket prices to cover the extra run. I doubt the daisy pickers would pay over $200 for a train ride, even if it was over the Port Road.

Maybe I read your post wrong, but I would love it if you could clarify it for me to make sure I understand your post better.
Thanks!
Russ Swinnerton

I said that we always reserve 15% of the seats in any given car for breathing space and so as to be able to accomodate family groups etc. That means we sell 85% of the space not 70%.

I should have been clearer in my post by stating that I was refering to steam powered trips which have their own special demands and needs vs. a diesel trip.

What we have found over the years (with steam excursions) is that it's very important to operate a full blown dress rehearsal trip to get all the bugs out before we commence a revenue program in new territory. Fortunatly, we followed this with the Port Jervis program and uncovered a substantial number of glitches ( problems with compatibility between Comet 2 & Comet 3 coaches, faulty fire hydrant at Pt. Jervis, weaknesses in the volunteer crews training, EMT interfacing, operation of photo run-bys for 1500 people etc., etc. ) which were all addressed prior to the commencement of the revenue trips. The 24 excursions over the 3 year program ran 97.8 OT, carried 29,765 revenue passengers with zero reportable injuries/incidents. That kind of track record doesn't just happen...it's earned by paying careful attention to the details AND by having a first rate crew!!

I'm confident that the CRHS learned many valuable lessons which will undoubtedly make their future trips better!!

Ross Rowland

Thanks Ross for the clarification. I can't even begin to imagine what goes into running a steam trip. I know how reluctant NS was to handle our trip, so I'd imagine a steam run would be near on impossible.

We have definately learned a lot and now we begin the strategic planning for the next one. We've got our book of things not to do and another binder of things that worked well. I'm going to let this group know ahead of time what's going on and have you guys be an "advisory commitee" for us along with the knowlage we now posess.

Thanks again all for good info and the comments. We really appreciate it.
Russ Swinnerton