I was chatting with Steve Sandberg yesterday, mostly to congratulate him on the fall colors trips with 4449, and inquired about 261's future. Before I proceed any further, I want to emphasize that I'm NOT reporting any secrets. I specifically asked Steve if I could report on his comments, and was told that I could.

He said that he considers it almost certain that the 261 will be returned to the museum in its present condition sometime next year. It's been four or five months since they've had any contact with NRM and Steve feels that none is likely. The museum's last position was, I guess, said to be their final one, and Steve says that it is untenable.

He said that he might take "a year or two off" and then see what opportunities arise. So there ya have it, more or less from the horse's mouth.

Gonna miss the 261, I am.

Regards,
Doug

This is odd, I was just thinking about the 261 because Ozark Mountain Railcar has a couple of ex- Milwaukee coaches available in restorable condition. I hope they get them with some of the boiler money they set aside for the engine. But the whole story of failed negotiations for a great group turns my stomach a bit.

By the way, the MILW coaches seem to be from the Copper King Express train in Montana. Because the sale includes the rebuilt cars, it would appear that the tourist line will be shut down.

All is not lost. I would suspect that a new engine for this group might bring even more people out and more support for their group. People have seen how well these guys can perform and want to see them do more. If the group that actually owns the engine doesn't want to keep it going, let them have their engine back and start anew with the knowledge, support, and facility they have already amassed.

-Joe

Its the organization and not the locomotive that made this effort a success. The group should take this opportunity to find another locomotive to restore and operate. Any guesses as to what an appropriate new locomotive for them might be?

Seeing as how the emphasis is on the Milwaukee Road, and the fact that they have lots of experience with the 261, and the S3 class in general......how about the 265 in Union ?.... :)

Whatever the case, steam or no steam, I applaude the efforts of the 261 group, for what they have been able to accomplish. Not only have they been able to restore the 261 to excellent operating condition, logging miles all over the US, they also were able to recreate the feel of a vintage passenger train, which is overlooked more often than it should be.

I'd hope that there would be someone in Green Bay playing "Amazing Grace" on the bagpipes, when they pull her into NRM for the last time. It's only appropriate.

Phil

If it were possible and BNSF would allow it, I would love to see GN 2584 in Havre, Montana restored to operating condition by a group like the 261.

I had the pleasure of helping Steve Sandberg and company out on the restoration a few years ago with the current Pyle Turbo Generator. I was told that it was a twin to the original.

I also had the pleasure to see the 261 in person in Hunginton, WV. when she ran the New River Gorge train trip.

I wish Steve and crew the best in any and all endeavors that they may get into in the future.

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

SS -

If the organization wants to keep the emphasis on a locomotive that is "native" to the upper midwest, the options are somewhat limited. And if it seeks another engine that can "make time" over busy, common carrier trackage and also haul decent sized trains, that option becomes even more limited. But there ARE still some very good possibilities out there. Which would include:

1. CMStP&P 4-8-4 #265; a sister to the 261.

2. GN 4-8-4 #2584

3. GN 4-8-2 #2507

4. GN 4-8-2 #2523

5. CB&Q 4-6-4 #3001

6. CB&Q 4-6-4 #3003

7. CB&Q 4-6-4 #3006

8. CB&Q 4-6-4 #3007

9. CB&Q 4-6-4 #4000

10. CB&Q 4-8-4 #5614

11. CB&Q 4-8-4 #5629

12. CB&Q 4-8-4 #5631

13. CB&Q 4-8-4 #5633

14. SP&S 4-8-4 #700

I know not the potential availability of any of these engines. The 265 would seem like the most obvious choice. It is owned by a rail museum (IRM) and is not the only Northern in the museums collection, so museum visitors would still be able to see other examples of 4-8-4's. Some might question the listing of the Spokane, Portland & Seattle 700 in this list as NOT being from the upper midwest. But the engine is a duplicate of the Northern Pacific's class A3 4-8-4's and even might have been a "tack on" to the NP's order for the eight A3's. Certainly a relettering and renumbering, at least on occassion, to Northern Pacific #2668, would probably not be out of order. And the 700 also has the advantage of already being restored.

Other steamers from the upper midwest are not the needed size (such as the various surviving Soo Line engines or the C&NW 4-6-0's). Or there are no still existant locomotives from that particular railroad (such as the Chicago Great Western or CMStP&O).

Of course, I have my favorites from the above list (any of the Burlington O5 class 4-8-4's followed closely by the Q's S4 Hudson's). But in the end, it will be Steve's choice to make. All in all though, not a bad list of alternatives if the 261 does, in fact, end up going home to Green Bay.

Les

Whatever the situation is, I think any of us who have had a chance to speak with and ride with the Sandberg team know the truth as posted earlier in the thread... it is the people, not the machine, that make the organization stand out.

There is no shortage of candidates for a team like Steve's. Even if he takes a few years off, we have plenty of memories to replay.

A LOUD and CLEAR THANK YOU for the toil and joy #261 team!

Rob

Anyone like to coment on what "present condition" 265 is in. Are the tubes out of it?

What about SLSF 1522?

Well, hard to consider the Frisco as being an "upper midwest" railroad. But if we could, we could add a lot of SLSF 4-8-2's and 4-8-4's to the possible list of locomotives. I sure would like to see the 1522 in steam again myself.

Les

Thanks, Les for that list. Lots of "Q" power to choose from.

But I must admit, the thought of any of the three GN candidates in steam really excites me. My mother's family lived on the High Line and all most likely rode behind these three at one time or another.

Thanks for the chance to daydream about that.

By 1522 I was thinking more of a proven performer that would need less than a start from scratch restoration more than I was demographics.

Sorry, I meant to say what’s 261’s condition. I thought the tubes had been removed. Curious if it needed to be somewhat put back to normal before returning to Green Bay.

A companion thread "MILW 261" was started concerning this same subject and it has now seemed to have moved to the question of roller bearings. I will resurrect this thread for a moment to ask the question, "which of the above 14 possible alternate candidates to the 261 has roller bearings"?

Thanks.

Les