How about a demo with the fire district present? Have ample firefighting equipment on hand and then try to light the right of row on fire. It doesn't look like there is enough fuel to sustain a burn.

You said that the trees are a distance from the track? Would a fence like a drift fence be an option to reduce the leaves getting onto/into the ballast?

Sully: A drift fence might work if we were talking about a large amount of leaves. One of our guys just sent me this photo. The fire guy thinks this accumulation of leaves and twigs is a fire hazard. I can't think of anything that would prevent this, especially when 20 to 30 mph winds are not uncommon.

Has anyone else had problems with fire officials declaring this small "accumulation of dead vegetation" a fire hazard?

JIm

So, you get to rake up the entire right of way? To think I grumble about raking the yard. Man, I'm so glad I'm not in California!

Well, I do have a possible solution. Ugly but it may prove effective.

Once you get the right of way cleaned off, put down a layer of geotextile fabric on top of the ties and ballast. (Hopefully you can find one that the fire department won't say creates it's own fire hazard!)

Nail it to the ties with roofing nails or staples etc. The smooth surface of the fabric would provide a lot less places for the leaves to "key in" making sweeping them up less difficult. Cut it so that it curls up right against the web of the rail if possible. You may have to do a bit of folds to accomodate the curve, but it can be done.

I install fabric a lot, usually under the ballast. On occasions it's used on top with a layer of sand prior to paving the track structure. Of course that would be the ultimate solution, pave it to the top of the rails and the leaves would just blow away. So would all the funds in your budget, so it's not a viable option...

Fabric is relatively inexpesnive, and can easily be pulled up if you need access to the track structure.

I think I'd call a meeting with the local FRA person to have him assess, and then have a meeting with the FRA and the fire representative.

Second to that, what quantifies 'enough' dead vegative debris to create a hazard - is there such a measurement in the CA fire code or CFR?

Is this a local (mainly structural) fire department, or a wildland outfit like Cal Fire or the USFS? If it's a local district, maybe bring someone with more "real world" wildland fire experience in for a consult? If that photo of the guy with a leaf blower is typical of the problem it seems like a ridiculous attitude for a fire department.

It is our CalFire guy that is hassling us.

A few questions ...

First ... who exactly owns the tracks? Is it the museum, the "real" railroad, or someone else?

Second ... is the "real" railroad that operates over the line a common carrier under FRA jurisdiction?

Third ... does the museum fall under FRA jurisdiction?

The answers to these questions can have a significant influence on the course of action. If the tracks are owned by a common carrier under FRA jurisdiction, you can tell the local FD to go pound sand, and that the next time they trespass on the property they will be arrested, thanks to federal preemption. :-)

For those of you from outside of California. We live in a tinder box here. In much of the United States it rains (or snows) 2 to 3 inches every month, year around. In parts of Southern California it doesn't rain much more than twice that amount in an entire year, and usually doesn't rain for months on end. Thus, our environment is one of very high fire danger for much of the year. We have frequent, large fires. Large means thousands of acres with many homes burned, including homes not just in rural areas but also in suburban and urban areas. These fires are often started by inadvertant human activity. Fire people are under tremendous pressure to do everything possible to prevent fires from starting and spreading. They have experience with fires started by trains and can't turn their backs on what they perceive to be hazardous conditions. Are they overly cautious in some instances? Perhaps, but their caution is driven by their experience.

Joe is exactly on target.

All joking aside, I'm certain they are considering those creosted timbers we call ties. They catch fire quite easily. A nice breeze and a little pile of those leaves combined with a spark could concievably do it. Probably not? Yes, I'd agree probably not, but fireman don't do "probably not" any better than FRA boiler inspectors do, all they know is "It could happen!"

If they have a valid concern, then trying to deal with is the best approach. If it's not valid, you'll need to find a way to prove it to them, and lots of luck with that. Telling them it's out of their jurisdiction, even if it is correct, will only lead to an adversarial position that would probably create more problems downstream. Is your station under their jurisdicition? Those stored cars? Your fuel supply? Shop, paints and chemicals? I'll bet an CA fire inspector with a bee in his bonnet could make life miserable.

Getting back to my initial question: is anyone else in this group required to keep their ROW as clean as has been mentioned? The photos shown earlier weren't clean enough. And if someone else is doing this, how do they do it?

I'll have to agree with Joe and Bob that yes, we have extreme fire danger in our area. And, I certainly don't want to be the conductor who has to say, "yes, it was my train that started the fire that burned 500 houses and cost 2.5 million to put out."

Certainly we have to make a good effort in trying to minimize the possibility of starting a fire. We can't have foot-high weeds growing between the rails, we can't have internal combustion engines running in the area without spark arresters, and we can't have people throwing cigarettes off the train. But there has to be some point where it can be said that we have done all that is practical to reduce the possibility of a fire. There is no way to reduce the chances of a fire to zero.

Another thought.

Could you rig a series of nozzles across the bottom of your locomotive's pilot aimed to blow debris out from the ballast and onto the bare earth shoulder? It could be run off the main reservoir as long as you can keep the flow low enough, or the duration of each pass short enough to avoid drawing down the pressure too far.

If you used such a blower on every trip, it might help prevent accumulation to the point where the labour- intensive leaf blower thing could be reduced to the odd trouble spot.

I haven't tied this, but it should be pretty easy and cheap to rig up as an experiment. Even a flattened bit of tube could serve as each nozzle.

Anything to reduce your labour requirements and satisfy the FD!

Steve Hunter
RMEO

Jim,
The requirement to remove every last vestige of plant material seems a bit extreme. A fine spray of water with every train sounds like the most effective mitigation measure. The concern for weed growth is legitimate but could probably be dealt with by use of a pre-emergent herbicide. Several of these are registered for use in California, including some fairly promising new ones.
J

If removal of leaves seems impractical, what about a smoke chaser. This could be an effective early warning method and have some limited capacity to fight a fire. This would be enhanced by radio responce directly to the FD or to an emergency dispatcher, even a member at your base station with a land line to the CFD/911 operator. How is your cell phone coverage in the area? Does the CFD have a ROW map with MPs? Do you have a tank car that could be kept full at a spot accessable to CFD vehicles? I'm sure these issues have all been discussed amoung yourselves and the CFD. Keep working at it. Make it a win/win.

Minor exposure to these issues at Jamestown and Niles Canyon.

Good luck.

What's the closest Class 1 mainline? What do they do?

I can't recall any photos of a BNSF rake and leafblower crew...