I am looking for a chemical to clean the side and roof fluting of several Budd RDCs that are in serious need of a bath. One previous suggestion involved a wash with a low percentage mixture of acid and soapy water, but I fear the possibiliy of etching window glass and possibly etching the stainless itself. The filth on the car includes the normal road grime accumulated over the years and appears to be impervious to the warm detergent mixtures and steam cleaning that we have utilized in recent attempts. I trust that someone might have a suggestion besides Brillo pads and plenty of elbow grease! Thanks.

lnacrr@aol.com

Having washed many a diesel in my time, I can say that that stuff will not come off without a strong caustic alkalai detergent to loosen it before scrubbing. It literally has to be eaten off. I don't think alkalai it will harm the stainless or real glass, but will eat off paint, and will damage plexiglass and other plastic windows. Be sure to wear goggles and a rubber suit and gloves, as it eats skin readily also. You'll need a good scrub brush, and perhaps one of those rotating brushes that go on the end of a pressure washer. When I was last in the mechanical department, we were using a soap that was mostly potassium hydroxide, with good results. It seemed to take the dirt off well, and didn't harm paint as bad as some of the other deadly stuff we'd been using before. All of it damages eye tissue readily and permanently, so be careful. And yes, in some places a Brillo pad will be necessary.

> I am looking for a chemical to clean the
> side and roof fluting of several Budd RDCs
> that are in serious need of a bath. One
> previous suggestion involved a wash with a
> low percentage mixture of acid and soapy
> water, but I fear the possibiliy of etching
> window glass and possibly etching the
> stainless itself. The filth on the car
> includes the normal road grime accumulated
> over the years and appears to be impervious
> to the warm detergent mixtures and steam
> cleaning that we have utilized in recent
> attempts. I trust that someone might have a
> suggestion besides Brillo pads and plenty of
> elbow grease! Thanks.


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Hi, Chuck!

It's been a long time since I played with Budd cars (I had a hand in the restoration of the NYS&W Budd Car M-1, sister to your "M-3").

If I remember correctly, the Budd manuals recommended a solution of Oakite 870 for cleaning.

I tried looking up Oakite on the web, and found the following URL:

http://www.tarksol.org/

Oakite products are listed there, but lack descriptive text. I'd suggest giving them a call at the 800- number listed on the webpage.

For small,localized cleanup of gunk such as in the vestibules and traps, there's a commercial product called "Bar Keepers' Friend" that contains the same sort of oxalic acid, though not in as industrial-strength form.

http://www.barkeepersfriend.com/products.htm

Best Regards,
John Isaksen



johni@warwick.net

Oakite has a website.

http://www.oakitestore.com/
bobyar2001@yahoo.com

>
>
Chuck,
We use aluminum coil cleaner in hot water (a 1 to 4 ratio). Rinse with plenty of water and you won't have any trouble with your paint or windows as long as the acid mix doesn't sit on the car too long.Don't use Brillo pads or other abrasive pad they will etch the stainless and give you real problems

B. Allan

cvsrkahuna@aol.com

> Oakite has a website.

Personally, I have had good luck with Oakite in regards to cleaning parts. I'm unable to recommend it for cleaning stainless since I haven't tried that, yet. However, if Budd recommended it, it can't be all bad.

God Bless,
Gerald Kopiasz

Heartland Railroad Historical Society
hrrhs@aol.com

> Oakite has a website.
Way back in 1963 when I was young and foolish I had a summer job at the Canadian Pacific coach yard here in Vancouver B.C. One of our most hated jobs was to have to wash baggage cars with long handled brushes and a bucket of Oakite. This stuff was yellow in colour and came in 45 gallon drums. It would eat out a pair of jeans in short order and would take the skin off your hands even though we wore heavy rubber gloves. Other than the gloves we had no other protective gear. One thing I allways remebered was that you had to rinse the car VERY well or there would be a thin film of "soap" left on the car side that would eventually scar the paint after it had been rained on. The drill was to wash the baggage cars in the morning with the foreman inspecting them in the afternoon. God help you if there were streaks.
Oakite was used in the run through wash rack as well and gave good results. The CPR washed the stainless steel Canadian cars after every run and at several points during the cross Canada journey so the cars never really had an accumulation of grime. The cars ends were washed with a long handled brush by hand and you really had to hustle to keep up. This was hard work and everybody hated it even though it only lasted for an hour or so. They sprayed the trucks and underbody of the cars with a solution home made from old diesel fuel,lube oil and solvents. Pretty potent by today,s standards.
The point of this whole effort is to reinforce the need for safety precautions when using a product like Oakite. I'm 57 and I still have scars from Oakite burns,fortunately nothing on the face or in the eyes.


http://wcra.org
gferguson@aebc.com

> Way back in 1963 when I was young and
> foolish I had a summer job at the Canadian
> Pacific coach yard here in Vancouver B.C.
> One of our most hated jobs was to have to
> wash baggage cars with long handled brushes
> and a bucket of Oakite. This stuff was
> yellow in colour and came in 45 gallon
> drums. It would eat out a pair of jeans in
> short order and would take the skin off your
> hands even though we wore heavy rubber
> gloves. Other than the gloves we had no
> other protective gear. One thing I allways
> remebered was that you had to rinse the car
> VERY well or there would be a thin film of
> "soap" left on the car side that
> would eventually scar the paint after it had
> been rained on. The drill was to wash the
> baggage cars in the morning with the foreman
> inspecting them in the afternoon. God help
> you if there were streaks.
> Oakite was used in the run through wash rack
> as well and gave good results. The CPR
> washed the stainless steel Canadian cars
> after every run and at several points during
> the cross Canada journey so the cars never
> really had an accumulation of grime. The
> cars ends were washed with a long handled
> brush by hand and you really had to hustle
> to keep up. This was hard work and everybody
> hated it even though it only lasted for an
> hour or so. They sprayed the trucks and
> underbody of the cars with a solution home
> made from old diesel fuel,lube oil and
> solvents. Pretty potent by today,s
> standards.
> The point of this whole effort is to
> reinforce the need for safety precautions
> when using a product like Oakite. I'm 57 and
> I still have scars from Oakite
> burns,fortunately nothing on the face or in
> the eyes.

Very interesting.

The steel window posts of our Pacific Electric cars have a bad case of the rot. It was bad back when the company was operating the cars -- they put caps around the bottom of the posts to hide the holes.

I have understood that this was becuase of the Oakite that the company used. It would be completely rinsed off after cleaning; it would get into the wood filler in the window post.

By comparison the Los Angeles railway used only soap and water and that rust problem does not exist on its cars.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net