[ Not that I necessarily want to advocate the R&N model, (which some people accuse of letting the diesel do all the real work with #425 on the point for show, which is a debate/argument/shouting match for another thread,)


Well anyone that believes this has never rode behind nor seen any 425 trip in person.
She does far more then her share of the work pulling 10-14 coaches and a A-tank. Not to mention mainline grades of around 1.5%, and it is only a light pacific.

I advocate for a CB&Q 4-8-4, 4-6-4, or an NYC 4-8-2. An IC 4-8-2 wouldn't be a bad choice either.

Berks are a great excursion locos (power + speed) but there's two of them out there already.

How about Cotton Belt 819? It may be the only way she'll ever run again. Not an upper-midwest engine per se but a great excursion loco that would look good pulling orange and red to most of the public.

What about JJJ's 6325. Another great choice and not getting much mileage these days.

I'm not certain that one of the NYC Mountains would qualify sufficiently as a "mid-western" locomotive, but as far as an eyebrow raiser, you couldn't get a more desired locomotive. That would be a coup, in its own right.

Uh...you've obviously never seen 261/765/6060 operate, then. I've seen 261 and 765 hit 65mph and 6060 has gone 85mph! And besides, why would Steve choose a (strictly) FREIGHT engine to pull PASSENGER excursions?

*Sigh* We have the RN #425 operating and putting on an amazing show everytime she runs, yet we STILL get these railfans who want to bitch and complain about the minor details. WHY??? Why can't people be thankful for the small things? I'd rather see 425 get diesel assistance than to not see her run at all.

Wowak and whodom, that wasn't directed at you btw, I'm speaking in general. The more I ride steam excursions and read steam forums, I realize that alot of railfans are never satisfied and unless things match with THEIR ideas, they're never happy. Completely disregarding the fact that all they have to do is stand their and take it all in, they're not doing a LICK of work, but that doesn't stop them.

Well and needed to be said. Enjoy the show folks and be glad you have a show at all.

I agree. I live in South Carolina where we don't have any operating mainline steam and I'd be more than happy to see steam on NS or CSX even if it had an Amtrak P42 tucked in behind it as it seems most non-UP mainline steam excursions do these days. Heck, we don't even have an operating steam locomotive at a museum or tourist railroad in this state. I'd be happy to have a class 1 railroad as supportive or at least tolerant as BNSF, UP or CP around here and have diesel assistance on a steam excursion than to have NO steam excursions as has been the case in this region of the country for the past 15 going on 16 years. The last mainline excursion I rode was a North Carolina Transportation Museum sponsored Amtrak trip up the former Southern Railway loops from Spencer/Salisbury to Asheville, North Carolina on November 1. While I had a great time riding mileage I hadn't traveled before and the crew members and volunteers of the NCTM and Watauga Valley Chapter NRHS are to be commended for putting on excellent trip, I couldn't help wishing the 611 or 1218 was on the head end instead of the Genesis units.

Although I haven't seen it in person and only on VHS, DVD and YouTube, I think the 425 is a nice locomotive and seems to have great stack talk. Granted I think the 425 is slightly larger, but Savannah & Atlanta 750 had to use Southern FP-7's in 1983 on most of it's last excursions for Norfolk Southern before being returned to the Atlanta Chapter NRHS for use on the New Georgia Railroad from 1985-1988.

The Clinchfield Railroad used F7B's painted to match their passenger trains in the late 60's and 70's as the #1 4-6-0 (Now at the B&O Museum in Baltimore) could only pull about 2 of their heavyweight passenger cars solo. In today's environment I suspect you are going to see fewer mainline steam excursions without diesel assistance even with a locomotive capable of pulling a passenger train on it's own for a variety of reasons. I am thankful for the steam locomotives that are still running even with diesel assistance. I hope to make it to the 2010 NRHS Convention in Scranton to see the 425 in steam as well as whatever is running at Steamtown as well.

Its nice to have people here support the way we run. To many people complain about every little detail. Ill take any running steam over some poor stuff and mounted loco anyday.

Ryan
Reading and Northern employee

1522 was set up with a control box in the cab to run a unit behind us. We had pass through on the auxiliary water car and could MU, except for the dynamic brake.
We did operate MU on the EAS over the BNSF to Texas and back. It was handy to get us up to track speed with the train without beating the steam engine to death. I don't recall getting any complaints at the time and I used it several times. No sense brutalizing your machine when help is at hand.
We did take some heat on the final trips for one of our engineers using the Amtrak unit once in a while. I wasn't that happy about it coming up Rolla Hill on the last trip but didn't broadcast it to the whole train by using the radio to tell him to lighten up.
It's a fact of life in today's world. I'm rooted in the past and didn't wear the headsets, etc, but didn't mind using the diesel's air compressor to take wear and tear off of ours.
Good luck to the Sandbergs in their future endeavors.

Agreed 100%. I can't imagine ANYONE who has seen 425 recently that would come away with the belief that it's only there for smoke and whistles. R&N may use the diesels to maintain track speed (as opposed to slogging it out on those long hills at 10mph if 425 was left alone), and I don't think they would refute that. That said, 425 is doing more than it's fair share on those trips, and I think any of the youtube clips would prove this. I'd come far closer to subscribing to the thought that R&N is thrashing the engine to death over the accusation of it just being there for show--and I doubt either theory is accurate.

If you haven't seen the 425 run since the restoration, please make it a point to get up there. R&N might just run the best mainline steam program in the east at the moment, and that is one loud, gutsy pacific. If only Pennsylvania wasn't 8hrs away from NC...

Oh hey, I'm with you. I've ridden behind 425 and watched her storm up Locust Summit from track side, I could tell by the sound that the diesel (A measly U-23-B iirc) was idling and 425 was doing the work. I wish I still lived in PA so I could ride every 425 excursion! Besides, 425 is just as pretty in blue as she was in black.

Really, everybody is voting like there is a choice, the fantasy stuff should stop. Remember the Friends is more or less a for profit entity. Let them decide what type of steam engine they will restore and operate no matter what they will still be providing a class act show and be preserving something. The engine doesn't make the group the PEOPLE do!! I enjoyed my trip with the friends and wont forget it, like I said the people make the trip not the engine. I could try to describe my first hand story but wont b/c I was nothing less than impressed with their group. Even though my trip was 6ish years ago it was my first and only mainline steam experience and I will never forget it.

Having purchased a bunch of 425 tickets on both the Port Clinton to Jim Thorpe and Jim Thorpe to Pittston runs, I can't imagine that anybody would complain about the set up,even though I subscribe to the theory "425 for show, EMD's for go."

Here's the reality; no matter how visually appealing 425 is, its a small Pacific with something less that 40,000 lbs of TE, I think I read its low 30's. That's 3/4 of a K-4. or CP 2317. It's also hand-fired. The grades on the Pitt-JT line are something like 1.8%. The CNJ and LV both had heavy Pacifics on this line for a reason.

Using diesels extends the steamer's range, reduces mechanical stress on the engine, mitigates the risk of delay to potential mechanical issue, etc. Assuming the railroad chose to overlook these advantages to satisfy the tender sensibilities of purists, you get a train limited to 4 maybe 5 coaches and some water/coal stops. Oh yeah, then you have ticket prices of $200, instead of $70.

Yes, the diesels are the real muscle,so what? That's a reality. If 425 gets a hotbox, you creep up to the next siding,set off the steamer and the diesels keep you from sitting in the hot sun, waiting for rescue power to be dispatched. Just remember; on an excursion you have 15-20 minutes at most before your passengers' frustrations escalate geometrically. The worse the weather, the shorter the grace period.

While running, you don't hear the diesels and only once in multiple trips was I aware of their presence, and then only then because I had a scanner.

Back in 1968/1969, the Lehigh Valley hosted the Buffalo Creek and Gauley No. 4, now at NCTM. They had F-7's to assist the light Consol and at one point, added switchers (not for power,but to comply with union work rules). Guess what-the F-7's are gone. If SD-50's are around in 35-40 years, they will be heavily rebuilt into something else; the way GP-9's are turned into "710 eco" power. In a future retrospective, the 645 powered SD-50 might be crown jewel of the head end.

A couple of years ago, the idea of steam excursions on this line was a fantasy. I say buy a ticket and enjoy. You still hear a whistle, the shortening of the valves as speed is picked up, and smell coal smoke.

Mike, if we stop fantasizing, about 90% of the posts on this forum would stop. I don't think anyone is going to criticize them for whatever locomotive they use, but surely there's no harm in speculating about possibilities here? Who knows, maybe someone will mention a potential locomotive that they wouldn't have thought about otherwise.
BTW- if we're talking 6 drivered engines, my personal pick would be ACL #1504 in Jacksonville. :-)

Why is everybody on the theory that the dismals do all of 425's work, i have rode these trips both in the cars and in the cab and i can tell you first hand that the crew of 425 know how to utilize all the power she can make and pull the train with very little assistance from the dismals. that being said i've never got to ride behind 261 but i have seen her in person when she was at steamtown and she was magnificient. i wish steve and his crew the best with finding a new engine and just to throw out the shock factor how about 2124, she is roller bearing equipped and it would be nice to see her run again, screw the regional thing and just do something neat.
Matt