Not much going on at YRE. What's it gonna take to get the J3A out of Port Clinton? How much longer before she turns a wheel on her own? Despite what everyone may say, I STILL have faith she will run again but PLEASE run her with coal!

I will never get the coal thing, but I was brought up on oil. To me it just says FRN. I will give Ross a few kudos for trying to make ti worth his while to run his locomotive. I wish it was running to but I see his reason for keeping her cocooned. Let's hope that opportunity to break even in this modern steam world comes up.

The answer Steve is a use that will justify investing the cost of a full FRA workup ( $ 500,000-750,000) needed to return her to service. With the current attitude towards steam specials by both NS and CSX there's no sense thinking about it without a secure use for the machine.

We keep seeking such a use and Lord willing someday we'll succeed. Persistance is paramount!!

Ross Rowland

Junior,

Why so sandy about New Hope in particular though? Do you have some sort of unfulfilled attachment to the place that you don't want to let us know about?

Furthermore, comparing bank executives to railroaders is apples an oranges. Start to understand railroad overhead, then we'll talk.

Me suspects that Mr. Emerrson is on to something???

Ross Rowland

Regrettably, so is Junior. Corporate level railroad executives - or should I say executives in holding companies that include railroads - have much more in common with bankers than with old line, street level railroaders. It's increasingly unusual to find anybody working their way up from a shops or ops position any further than the middle. Probably not including shortlines such as NH&I, but certainly in the context of mainline and regional carriers.

dave

Ever since working there, I've wanted to see their balance sheets to find out if they were a profitable tourist railroad, or a profitable parking lot that operates trains. I've heard from several reliable sources that ridership has yet to eclipse the numbers they saw in the first season under the present corporation back in '91. I'm not really bothered by the prices so much as the brazen "gotcha" fashion with which they relieve customers of their money. For example, there are numerous signs on Bridge Street directing you to their parking lot, but the price is only revealed when it is extremely difficult to turn around. Yet dozens of people per hour still do so, and I don't imagine very many of them are going to do repeat business with the railroad. Secondly, they forbid photographs with Santa/Easter Bunny using your own camera, but get you for $20 using their photographer, and the quality isn't exactly terrific. They don't touch it up or eliminate redeye or anything. The fall foliage trains to Warminster used to be narrated, but now they just play music while the trainmen are tasked with pushing overpriced food and beverages. R&N charged a buck for bottled water on the 425 excursion I went on last year. New hope is at least double that. First time I was there back in the early 90's, they had coach and first class, and both were under 10 bucks. First class was 2 dollars extra I believe, and included a mug with a beverage and a snack, and we got to keep the mugs! Still wish I had mine. It was a really nice time. We tried to go back a couple of times, but it was unfortunately when they weren't operating. It was also the leading edge of my high school years at which point I stopped "hanging out" with mom and dad. As time went by, I figured they would soon evolve into a nice, quaint operation like the Strasburg which had gotten me hooked on this business. When I came back there in '04 looking for a job, I'd expected all the various "projects" that were under construction around the property would have been completed, but everything mostly looked the same, only with red coaches instead of green. I didn't understand why at first, but I eventually noticed the style of the place had shifted from a 'family business' atmosphere to more of a "douchey corporate racket/cash cow/tourist trap" It's very difficult to criticize the management of a successful tourist railroad, but I'm going to anyway because 1. like I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I don't believe the tourist railroad could stand on its own without parking lot revenue, which is mostly from non-patrons and 2. anyone with their eyes open can see that they scare away over half of their potential customers. I don't care how well they're doing, they could be doing far, far better, they're out of touch with their target market, and I don't think their current MO is sustainable in the long term. I worked there for 2 years and have never felt comfortable recommending the place to friends or relatives - not really because the price is high, but from the standpoint of your typical cost-conscious middle class family, the experience isn't going to justify the cost. They can't survive on the wealthy alone. The vast majority of families living within day-trip distance of New Hope aren't wealthy, and I'd bet a large chunk of the tourists in town on any given day aren't wealthy either. They need to reign in the outdated Barnum marketing tactics. Advertise the parking price on the street and give it back to people that buy train tickets. This does 2 good things: 1. Doesn't piss off the people that were coming to ride the train 2. Gives people that were just coming there to park something to do. Butts in seats = good. Let people take their own photographs of their kids with Santa for God's sake. And since a typical family is paying over $130 for a coach class train ride while trying to hear a story over a PA system still fraught with clarity problems after 20 years with the warm cup of watered-down Swiss Miss, I think they can afford to throw in that "professional" photograph for free. Then maybe some customers will actually want to come back, and hopefully they'll even tell their friends. I think they call that "growth" or something. They need to concentrate on providing the best experience possible with every train ride and stop trying to nickel and dime people to death. They keep milking the cow but won't let it go out and eat grass. Just because a burgeoning tourist railroad is a rarity shouldn't mean NH&I should be content with "doing ok". They're more proximal to more densely populated areas than any tourist railroad in the region to my knowledge. They ought to be doing much better. One day while I was working there, a coworker had been wearing a Strasburg t-shirt, and the Business Manager happened to see it, and gave him so much grief and had him remove it, because they're "the competition" and it apparently "reflects badly" on us if he were seen by customers wearing the competition's shirt. Now I don't think other tourist railroads are really competition as much as they are colleagues. But what gets me is, 40's injectors, safety valves, and check valves were manufactured by Strasburg. The color scheme on the coaches was copied from Strasburg. The grabirons had previously been yellow (safer at night), but they were changed to black, because Strasburg's are black. The interior designs of the parlor car, 1430, were copied from Strasburg's Marian. The new open car's design was also copied from Strasburg. 40's striping and lettering pattern was copied from 90 before Strasburg backdated it. So they're the competition, huh? Interesting. Maybe if they copied Strasburg's management philosophy and tried being original on all the frou-frou it'd work out a little better. Doesn't sound to me like the Business Manager really understands the uh.. business. This would be the person who reports to the President who spends about 2 half days a week on the property. To each his own and all, but I really think this business could use a more hands-on approach. When the business isn't reaching its full potential, and the president doesn't even have an office on the property, uh maybe a better approach would be in order. The thing is, the shareholders are treated to profits year after year, so until that changes, nothing else does. I suppose it should all work out nicely in the long run then. It's fun being an armchair CEO.

Limejuice makes some interesting points. I live about an hour away and stay away because the who darn town is in the money grab mode and I wont have any of that. I strongly believe in supporting any operation/excursion within my means. In the last dozen or so years I have been to the WK&S, R&N, LGSRY, BR&W, W&W, WMSR, SRR, a handful of times each (or more) but the only once to New Hope. The demographic of patrons (New Hope in general not just the railroad) they need consists of people who willing to toss away money. You wont see me there very often.

There's one guy that is very active in rail preservation circles (but not on here) that I first met at the W&W many years ago. At that time, he lived less than a half-hour from New Hope, yet put in his volunteer hours at the W&W, in spite of it being 1-2 hours away one way, because the W&W was willing to take on a young person and work him up the ranks, while the NH&I wasn't--he had some complaints about the place, but I don't remember the specifics.

The last time I was in New Hope ages ago, I chased, for a short distance, one run with #40. I now remember that every place I tried to "ditch" the car temporarily for the standard "grab that photo and run" technique, someone was trying to give me a ticket or have my car towed. And that was even outside town. That may be part and parcel of why I haven't been back.

You know, in Britain, that railroad would have LONG AGO established through connecting service between Warminster (SEPTA terminus--and they have weekend service, as I recall) and New Hope. If New Hope is such a "tourist destination" and a "parking rip-off," why is such a through/connecting service, perhaps with Reading RDC's, not a "no-brainer"? After all, isn't at least part of the point of the Grand Canyon RR to avoid the tourist traffic jams and parking?

I think the answer is that New Hope does well enough with the people who are willing to be ripped off in town that they are not worried about reaching out to a broader cross section of demographics. It's their business and they can do what they want. They pay employees and keep steam running and that is more than many places are able to do.

The New Hope & Ivyland has trained a number of young people over the past few years. I can think of at least half a dozen, but will not name them here. Some of them came to New Hope because opportunities were given to them that were not available at other short lines. My son started working there when he was 17 with a summer job in maintenance. He was asked to become a student fireman when he became 18 and has worked his way up from there. He is a senior in college and still works weekends when he can. He would never get this opportunity at Steamtown and he knows Steamtown very well. He has been a counselor at Railcamp for the past four years and loves it. He knows how long it takes to move up at many operations. I believe he now has over 500 hours of engine service on the NH&I.

I am out taking pictures along the line from time to time. I have never encountered any problems that Sandy ran into. Maybe it was just a bad day. As always, there are two sides to a story.

This thread has been interesting, to say the least.

Quick point, I have notice young guys working NH&I as well.

Longer point. Some of our RYPN brothers apparently dislike the town, not just things about the railroad.

I like the railroad, and I like the town. Yes, it is pricey, but if you are smart you can have a great time and not go broke. It is a great date spot. And though I have not been there for awhile, Odette's was one of my favorite restaurants for quite a few years. There used to be some great music memorabilia shops as well.

Anyway, point is, there is nothing wrong with an upscale destination. If you like it, great. If you don't, great.

And, how many of you have taken advantage of the trackside Triumph brewery? That's a pretty sweet way to combine to two of my favorite hobbies. :-)

Rob

Ron, Rob,

Great points. New Hope and other tourist shortlines provide a means to an end: to have fun while railroading!

I live about 20 minutes away and for $6 bucks you can park in the Elks or Legion lot and walk (whoa, what a concept) to a great eatery, Fran's pub. It's my wife's and my favorite.

So, one could speculate about stuff but, heck I am getting too old to care about that crap anymore.

You want to ride with Ross? Fine. You don't want to ride with Ross? Fine!

Opinions are like A*&^%$. BE NICE, HAVE FUN, WHO CARES!

Scott Kwiatkowski

BTW, across the river in JERSEY is River Horse Brewery, which has a great hoppy beer "Hopalotamus". (Sandy, feel free to chime in, you expert, you).

Back in the early McHugh days of the mid 1970s, it seemed that the public was willing to pay more for parking lot fees at New Hope station than for train fares from Buckingham Valley, Warminster, or Philadelphia to New Hope.
Most plans for connecting service via Warminster, as was done during the Bicentennial, involved starting and ending the day at New Hope. There did not seem to be a lot of ridership from New Hope to points South, so the 1st and last trips were especially empty.

Had the pleasure of having Ron's son as my fireman and he's a gem. Great fireman and he gets it that we're in the entertainment business. He dresses the part and makes every effort to accomodate guests requests for photos near the loco. with the kids etc. As Ron posted above he and a number of other youngsters have found a professional place to learn and progress.

As for Junior or Limejuice or whatever he calls himself today all I can say is I'm sorry you're so negative. Life is short...don't waste any precious time on the dark side.

Glad to report that #40 ran beautifully yesterday and that we had good crowds. The upcoming weekend looks like a blockbuster,and will probably set a new record. It's also been fun having several Rypners ride and to get to put a face to the name.

Well it's off to the roundhouse for an 0800 call. Have a safe day!!

Ross Rowland