Technically speaking, that counted as a commercial solicitation, however.

I've been on all three kinds of cab rides: the ones where you pay for them; the ones where they give you the cab ride because your donations helped save the loco, you're a life member of the owning organization, and you traveled 3,000 miles to see the darned thing in the flesh; and the ones where an engineer says, completely out of the blue, "Want a ride?"

You know, I don't remember much about the first one. But I sure as heck remember the delight of riding a Climax through the only covered bridge now left open to rail traffic, while learning a crash course on hand-firing a wood-burning logging locomotive!

And yes, Randy, I was also on 261's snow charter. My friends and I remember all too well 261 POUNDING up the grade out of Scranton, the various batteries shutting down from the cold (thank goodness for film still!), lenses and glasses fogging up, huddling in the Pocono Summit depot to stay warm, and various extremities going completely numb--and I'd do it all over again, too!

We were blessed with a picture perfect weather day and good loads. #40 ran like a top and we kept the schedule to the minute. Especially nice meeting my fellow Rypner from Fairfax Va. who made the 4 hour drive with 5 family members to take the trip. Sorry you ran out of memory in your camera shortly after leaving New Hope. Hope the pics of you and your grandson in the cab came out well!!

Murphy came to breakfast this morning in that the roll up door in the enginehouse refused to go up. It took a lot of effort to finally persuade it open but we made it out of town OT on the first run by the skin of our teeth but we made it!! Just another day on the railroad!!

Randy, you're so right. Life is short...due all you can to stay on the bright side!! While you're quite right that none of us is getting any younger I'm grateful to report that I can still fire her up the hill and keep her hot!! Truth be told I wouldn't want to do it all day...that's for the youngins!!

Day off tomorrow...do wash...rest up for last day running on Wed.

Ross Rowland

Jumping in late here, but I wanted to add a few observations …

Regardless of how you feel about New Hope’s (the railroad) fares and marketing strategy, now would probably be a good time for them to reexamine it.

I’m not sure of how many of you have been to New Hope recently, but during a trip I made there this fall, the number of vacant and soon-to-be-vacant stores was staggering. A rough count put at least 20% of the storefronts as either vacant or with a “going out of business” sign in the window. These weren’t recent startups either. Many of the affected businesses were retailers and eateries that had been there for DECADES. In all of the years that I’ve frequented New Hope, I have never seen this number of vacant stores.

Yes, it can be argued that the market will adjust and other stores fill those vacancies … but with the failure rate of new businesses being what it is, it could be years before the situation in the town begins to stabilize. In speaking with a family member who works in the tourist industry (non-railroad), the current trend sees a migration across the river, with Lambertville quickly growing as the destination. Several of the aforementioned businesses have already relocated there, or are looking to do so.

Whether or not the growing number of Lambertville tourists will walk across the bridge to Pennsylvania remains to be seen, … but New Hope’s management can’t ignore this new trend. On the day we were there, the train was very sparsely ridden. Even with sold out Santa trains, the high-end dollars that New Hope counts on today, may not be there in the coming years. The number of vacant stores should be a wake up call.

As a comparison, many have speculated that it was BR&W’s failure to react to such a trend that contributed greatly to their current economic situation. With outlet stores popping up all over the northeast in the 1990’s, Liberty Village and Turntable Junction no longer drew the huge crowds that BR&W relied upon so heavily to fill their trains. Part of that can be blamed on Turntable Junction’s management, who in the previous years had refocused their marketing plan from its original concept that included craft stores and living history presentations (such as blacksmiths, etc), to one that concentrated more and more on factory blemish and clearance items from designer clothing manufacturers. Once the New York/North Jersey crowd no longer had to take a day trip to find good deals at factory outlet stores, Flemington’s tourist dollars quickly eroded … much as New Hope’s is doing now.

Will New Hope make the same mistakes that BR&W did? That remains to be seen. BR&W still has the chance to capitalize on the growing market trend in Lambertville, but it will likely take some federal track repair grants for them to even reopen that portion of the line while the town is on the upward swing of the arc. New Hope also doesn’t have a draw on both ends of the line, and it’s going to have to be aggressive if it wants to keep the remaining tourist dollars coming in.

C.P. makes some interesting points. As a co-founder of the BR&W ( I left active participation in 1966 to concentrate on the High Iron Company) I have been sadenned by its recent several decade decline. I've long been puzzled by why it abandoned the Lambertville end of the property as it was always by far the prettiest ride and had the greatest growth potential. IMHO the demise of steam and the general decline of the property in all aspects is essentially the result of poor management,pure and simple.

As to the Lambertville-New Hope comparison, it's far from that clear to my observation. If you believe the local C of C numbers New Hope still outdraws L'Ville nearly 3:1 although this is down from nearly 4:1 ten years ago. Also, it's very important to note that a majority of L'ville visitors are older middle agers drawn by its growing reputation of antique and arts outlets vs. younger family and tourist types on the New Hope side. The New Hopers are far more likely RR riders.

It's true that there are times during the year that NH&I ridership is sparce. It's one of the penalties of running a year round schedule while you're building the business. On the other hand if you're willing to make the investment in maintaining a good product and concentrateing on filling in the light spots eventually you'll succeed.

I'm told that despite the economic climate this will be the best year yet for the NH&I since the current team took over in 1993. And again that's measured in net profit vs. gross people carried. Dollars pay the bills!!!

Looks like we'll have another nice weather day for tomorrow our last running day before Christmas. I'll be first trick engineer and hope to see some of you then.

Ross Rowland

I would have to agree here. At the time that BR&W discontinued its Lambertville operations, the state of NJ was literally giving away money to upgrade rail lines to allow the operation of railcars up to 286,000 pounds. It is my understanding that BR&W failed to apply for a grant, even though they qualified for it and were made aware of it before the deadline. The bulk of the money ended up going to Conrail because nobody else came forward to claim their share. Simlarly, another governmental agency was awarding money for the repair of bridges. BR&W was told about it, but again failed to apply. Those two grants alone would have allowed BR&W to upgrade the line and keep it in service.

Of course, at the time the property had the reputation of being a rolling fraternity party, and it ended up chasing away a lot of good people in the process. It didn't help that the railroad went through several years (starting in the mid-late 1980's) where the railroad was up for sale and no money reinvested in the property.

I know others here started with BRW around that time, and are still involved in the BRHS, and can attest to whether the situation has improved any ... but there were several squandered opportunities that would have resulted in continued service to Lambertville.

In regard to Ross's other comments ... the CoC numbers represent a significant shift. Today's Lambertville is what New Hope used to be ... a quiet artists' community, antiques stores, and restaurants. It will be interesting to see how the shift continues, or if the two compliment each other in such a manner that business across the board improves as the economy recovers.

It is interesting when you look at the lower Delaware Valley picture as a whole.

Arguably, the most scenic passenger line in the region is the Belvidere and Delaware River Railway. They keep pushing further south, and if they reach Milford they will have two very strong end-points. I haven't asked why they don't run steam on their Polar Express, perhaps they sell-out anyway. Quite frankly, I am surprised the BR&W didn't put all their tourist eggs in this basket.

The BR&W from Ringoes to Lambertville is very scenic. Unfortunately, the track below Lambertville to the old flea market site was lost to the bike trail. That was a short, but very scenic bit of track. I remember covering it in a doodlebug charter way back.

The NH&I ride is very nice. It lacks the river scenes of the Bel-Del, but it has some nice hills and gives some decent views.

It's quite unique to have three tourist lines in such close proximity (32 miles from New Hope to P'burg with BR&W just to the east) and possibly next year it will be three with operating steam.

Overlooked in this discussion of expense and steam operators is that the Bel-Del offers great value for the ticket price. I imagine the same will be true of the BR&W once #60 is back.

I, for one, would like to celebrate the variety and options... and wish all three railroads a wonderful 2010.

Rob

Perhaps this is not helping matters.

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Will

Could be, but Ross has mentioned the NH&I's high ridership, the Bel-Del guys expanded their offerings and the BR&W is slowing moving back towards steam.

If anything, maybe the choice in the market will be good?

Rob

Honestly, I don't see how it can hurt. Of the three, I think P'burg probably attracts the most riders who go out of their way to ride a train. I think New Hope and BRW rely more on those who come to their respective towns for other attractions, and decide to take a train ride while they are there.

If someone does come out just for the train, in most cases I would suspect it's an individual who will hit multiple properties in one day to get the most bang for their buck.

Knowing that, once 60 returns, BRW might want to offer an internet-only multiple-venue ticket, good for passage on both the BDRV and BRW on the same day. If priced properly, it might lure out those who want to visit both railroads on one trip.

While Lambertville has been growing in crowds I have been watching up the river as Frenchtown and Milford are growing and attracting day trippers who don't want to deal with the crowds down in the "twin cities". It is a shame that the Bel Del was torn up into Frenchtown as that would be a natural. In the same light it is a shame there isn't an operation out of Milford. I'm not sure of the value of a Phillipsburg to Milford operation as the two locations are vastly different - and I don't believe compatible. I'm not confident about those ridership numbers at Phillipsburg. While they post about all these sellouts and crowded trains the parking lot and local merchants tell a different tale.

Agreed about Frenchtown. That would be a great destination. Admittedly, the bet tourist route in the area is gone - Lambertville to Milford!

I can vouch for crowds on the Bel-Del from the little I saw and rode this year. Tough thing for merchants in P'burg is that parking is unfriendly and there isn't much to walk to. The family draw is Crayola across the river. I know of more than a few families who have done Crayola and train in one day, the time walking around is in Easton where there is good parking and a downtown.

P'burg is trying, but it needs a better reason for a family stay in town.

Rob

There's no doubt that the big advantage the NH&I has is that it's located dead center in the middle of a major tourist destination town. A plurality of its non-Santa ridership is comprised of folks who came to town to play tourists heard the whistle and decided to take a ride. I highly doubt that P'burg will ever evolve into a tourist town and therefore the operation there has to work hard to get folks to come specifically to ride the train. That's a MUCH harder task. The same disadvantage is certainly one of the ingredients in the low attendance at Steamtown. Most folks don't go to Scranton to play tourists.

I'd agree that the Bel-Del ride has the superior scenery...but that's not a major ingredient unless your talking the Rockies. Having large enough numbers of bodies from which to generate riders is the key ingredient.

Let's hope that all 3 can survive/thrive!!

Ross Rowland

Ross wrote:


AMEN!!!!!!

Merry Christmas all!

Rob

Well its off to the roundhouse for our last days running before the 2 day Christmas break. Its been fun meeting some fellow Rypners and I hope to meet more today! Should be a perfect weather day...great for pics.

My fond best wishes for a blessed Christmas and a healthy, safe and steam filled 2010!!

Ross Rowland

Try this...change the situation so rather than having three tourist railroads within 32 miles of each other, have three zoos, or maybe three amusement parks - some other form of out-of-the-ordinary but moderately large family attraction. This will perhaps take away some of the train geek bias we all have on this forum.

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Will