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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
p51 wrote:
robertmacdowell wrote:
... The freight cars were like normal freight cars, but they were clean! And absent any graffiti! Also the reporting marks were DODX.
Now, being a chum of the local crews, he hiked up to the train, only to be greeted by folks with M-16s that he didn't recognize as local crew. They told him in no uncertain terms, "Take your pictures FROM THE ROAD." Then he went to the local watering-hole where the crews hang out, and asked them about the train. They pretty much said "They don't tell us nothin', and we don't ask. But those guys with the AK's, they don't ever leave the train."
He almost certainly saw a escort car for nuclear casks or spent fuel rods going somewhere. I live right along the Puget Sound and Pacific RR, which runs up to the Bangor Sub base in the Puget Sound.


There is another option as well, which you also may have seen on the line to the Bangor Sub Base. That's the infamous "White Train" which may or may not have been carrying the nuclear missiles which in turn may or may not have been placed on board those nuclear subs. (They're always very careful to not actually say whether or not missiles are present.)

That train would meet the description of ordinary boxcar even better than the cask cars, which are rather uniquely shaped, and it also meets the description of "always having fellows with M-16's hanging around".

I've done a lot of work on the railroad tracks at Bangor over the years. As a civilian, I can honestly say I have no idea what's out there. I can also honestly say that whatever it is, be it nuclear missiles or comic books, they've got a lot of guys who are REAL serious about keeping it secure. Our work has occasionally tripped the rather sensitive alarms in secure areas, and you've be amazed at how quickly a couple of jeeps show up, complete with 3 guys and a dog, with the guy in the back manning a gun like on the old "Rat Patrol" show. Oh, and in case you have any doubt as to how serious they are, every 50 feet or so are large signs advised "Use of Deadly Force Authorized" or some such wording.

Should you ever happen across one of those trains, I'd be quite discrete, respectful and in this day and age I definitely would not wonder up to the caboose to say "Hi!" if you're not part of the train crew. I don't think they'd shoot you unless you were posing a serious threat, but you might end up getting a ticket for trespassing or hauled off.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
chlacey wrote:
The Vandenberg Rail Garrison facility was very impressive, and included an engine house (with a refurbished 80-ton General Electric and a "Shuttle Wagon" car-mover), a "test loop" (136-lb welded rail and portions of overhead catenary, if I recall correctly) and the storage igloo (with the "pop out" roof).


I don't recall the catenary there, but do recall some at the FAST Track testing facility in Pueblo. Then again, maybe they put the overhead up after we built the track.

The company I was working for at the time got the track contract for Vandenberg. As Craig mentions, it was impressive track, 136RE Welded rail and extremely tight tolerances. I recall the specs being some of the tightest we'd ever worked to.

We were all laughing about how perfect this track was, and wondering if the train was going to fall off the rails the first time it ever encountered a "real" stretch of track, one that wasn't surfaced to within a cat's whisker of perfection. :)

In any case, it was quite a nice facilty. What ended up happening to it? Did they use the track for anything else or just leave it there to rust or tear it out completely? I seem to recall they may have torn it up, but don't remember for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
This photo recently came through on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/delosj/2923132412/

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Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:49 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Presentations were made at at least 2 American Short Line & Regional Railroad Ass'n. Annual Meetings about how short lines could possibly participate in the missile launch program. That must have resulted in some leaks of information.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 372
I visited Vandenberg AFB in January 2008 and found only a bare right-of-way where the tracks had been. The motive power, GE 80-ton USAF 1680, had departed much earlier, but the tracks had been pulled up relatively recently. The rails and ties were already gone and at this point two employees from a scrap company were going through large piles of spikes and tie plates to separate the two. They said the track had come up in October 2007, so I had missed seeing it still intact by only a few months.

Regarding the basing of the missile trains, the January 1990 edition of Retired Officer magazine stated: "The Air Force has announced plans to rebase its MX Peacekeeper intercontinental ballistic missiles in the rail garrison mode. Plans call for 50 of the missiles, two each aboard 25 trains, to be garrisoned on secure, existing Air Force installations. When deployed by National Command Authorities during time of national need, the trains would have access to more than 120,000 miles of commercial tracks. This deployment will offer enhanced survivability and potential for prompt retaliation vital to successful deterrence of war.

"Six bases have been named to join the main operating base of F.E. Warren AFB, WY, as rail garrison locations. They are Barksdale AFB, LA; Dyess AFB, TX; Fairchild AFB, WA; Grand Forks AFB, ND, Little Rock AFB; AR, and Wurtsmith AFB, MI.

"Initial operating capability of one train (two missiles), under control of the Strategic Air Command, is scheduled for 1992. Missiles to be used are currently operational in modified Minuteman silos at F.E. Warren AFB."

I haven't been to any of these locations myself, but I believe that rail is gone from all of them.

Twenty years ago, when I first started tracking where the military had active rail operations, the Air Force had about two dozen bases with their own locomotives. Today that number is down to just five: Beale AFB, CA; Clear Air Force Station, AK; Eielson AFB, AK; Hill AFB, UT; and Shaw AFB, SC. According to an employee at Beale AFB, the lone GE 80-ton is used about once a month to haul special fuel for the base's U-2 aircraft. When the U-2s are retired, it will be the end of the base railway.

By the way, Eielson's GP40s are 4902 and 4903, both made available by the termination of the MX program. Unlike the Army, which renumbered 4900 and 4901 as USA 4647 and 4647, the Air Force left the TBCX numbers in place. When I last saw them eight years ago, at least one of the two ex-TBCX locomotives now in Army hands at Military Ocean Terminal Sunny Point, NC, had its Boeing builders plate intact. That was an interesting curiosity and, since the locomotives largely operate within a secure environment, it's very unlikely the builders plates will be removed by thieves. Typically the base used three of its four GP40s to run trains from the base to the CSX interchange, a fence-enclosed rail yard near Leland, 18 miles to the north. A few years ago, the other two GP40s (4631 and 4632) were sold to NREX and departed the base. I'm not certain if these also came from the MX program, but I'll look into it. Now that they're down to two GP40s, it's possible some of the GP10 VMV rebuilds are also making the run from the base to the CSX interchange.

As for the old WW II Pullman troop car on Flickr, I suspect that was a guard car or perhaps part of the Rail Bomb Scoring train during an earlier era. I found this blurb online about the RBS dated February 20, 1961 in the Tri City Herald:

"Rail Trains Used As Roving Target
Joplin, Mo. (AP) The Air Force plans to use three railroad trains as roving radar targets at many sites over the country where plane crews simulate bomb drops. Radar crews on the ground score the crews on accuracy. The first radar bomb scoring train is nearing completion at Ogden (Utah) Air Force Depot. It will be sent to Milan, Tenn., where it will become operational March 1."

I saw a film on the RBS about 20 years ago and I recall it used a number of former Army hospital cars, as did SAC's simulator train. I don't know too much about either the RBS train or the simulator train, so if anyone has more information on them, please feel free to speak up.

Getting back to the ALCOP, there are a few other sources of information on it. One is an article titled "Right on Track" by Captain Ron Fuchs on pages 17-20 of the November 1983 issue of AIRMAN magazine. Also, the Intercom, the newspaper for the Air Force Communications Command, published an article titled "1931st Converts Rail Cars to Command Post" in the December 31, 1982 edition. (The 1931st was a Communications Group.) This was followed by another article in the Intercom on September 8, 1983 titled "1931st Wins Citation of Honor" noting the unit's award from the Air Force Association for its role in making the ALCOP operational. Its unlikely any of these article are available online, so if there's any interest in them, I can post the text here.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 372
Regarding leaks of information, here's an excerpt from the October 1988 article on the MX trains in TRAINS magazine:

"Finally, are railfans a problem? The MX planning process has involved some discussion of the loosely organized but sophisticated network of railroad enthusiasts and the methods they use to keep track of the American rail system: photography, radio scanners, newsletters - the essential stuff of train-watching. It's hard to image that any MX missile train will round Horse Shoe Curve or climb Tehachapi Loop without rolling into the viewfinders of scores of railfans' cameras.

"Knowledgeable consultants involved in MX planning have appraised the Air Force of the depth and breadth of the hobby, but it appears that military planners don't consider it a major problem. The compromise of one, or two, or even five missile train locations is not considered a major threat. And in this free society, citizens can photograph military hardware when present in an uncontrolled setting. There is a threat from what the Air Force calls HUMINT, or human intelligence, and in the case of MX it could prove troublesome if a nationwide band of railfans was willing to sell information to the Soviets. But that might be the price of a democracy. We must assume railfans are patriotic."

How times (and assumptions) have changed! Everyone in this forum is undoubtedly familiar with the often ridiculous photography policies of some railways and rapid transit companies that brand rail buffs with cameras as terrorist threats.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Train @St Petersburg's 'Museum of Railway Technology
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:13 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:56 am
Posts: 4
Location: Pueblo Colorado
Found this pic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peace ... -29-08.jpg

Somewhere around here I have a baseball cap that TTCI put out when the Rail Garrison project was test out there.


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