I don't think he was suggesting that they divert the funds but rather to raise funds for a pole barn. We know the answer - by comparison it is a lot easier to raise money to "restore" a specific piece of equipment while raising money for a building and a "non-sexy" one at that is a tough sell.

She sure would look good at track speed with a rake of P-70's on her way to Atlantic City.

Actually, if there was mention of the funding being only possibly under Penalty of Terrible Consequences used for that purpose I missed it - so that money or any other, I suppose......shelter seems much preferable to paint from my perspective. I don't know if Superheater is making an sssumption about that funding or if I did - either way, paint is less robust.

dave

There are a couple sides to the whole "pole barn" discussion with regards to PRR 460:

To those suggesting a pole shed for 460: I'm sorry, but have you actually BEEN to the RR Museum of Pa.? Obviously not. Even though the Rolling Stock Hall has been doubled (maybe more than doubled) since it was built in 1970, half of the collection still sits outside. I've watch at least one piece sit outside and rot to scrapping. The stuff that most needs a pole barn are on the two "back tracks" largely hidden from the public. (Now, logistically, a roof extension there could work.....)

Furthermore, you can't really build a shed JUST for 460. If you were sending 460 to, say, Atlantic City, Altoona, or somewhere else for permanent static display, then certainly a shelter should be part of the equation. But supposing you build a shelter for 460, and then she gets put inside for a decade--are the donors going to be happy when a Conrail GP30, a GG1, an E44, or a Baldwin Shark goes under the shed?

Leaving stuff outside is not optimal, but also serves something of a purpose. Many, many times I have driven past the Museum to see someone outside the fences getting a photograph of the outside exhibits after hours--something not really possible if everything's inside. Same thing at the B&O Railroad Museum. And inquiries at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum seemingly have gone up since they started leaving their "work car" PCC outside the car barn and locked up for passersby to see. Before there was little more than tracks, poles, and one unexplained brick visitors center and one metal pole barn (with signage, yes, but....)

Ironically, the B&O Museum erected a pole shed (admitted not the most effective one) over some of their static exhibits many years ago. All those exhibits are now elsewhere, awaiting restoration or whatever--a testament to either the ineffectiveness of the shed or their demands for pavilion space for other events.

Okay.

YOU go get the operable "rake of P-70's," and we'll work on getting 460 steamable......... >;-)

Is Alex #4 speaking on behalf of the museum?

This might be a very good time to encourage the cooperative design of a pole barn built in the shape of a roundhouse, modular so anybody with a turntable could erect one of any convenient number of stalls around their pit and avoid expensive reinvention of the wheel fees.

Dave

Let's phrase it this way:

The odds that the RR Museum of Pa. will administratively allow the 460 to be restored to operable condition, then let loose at "track speed" (which I think is 90 mph) on the NJ Transit line between Lindenwold and Atlantic City, are about on par with Warren (or anyone else here, for that matter) being able to assemble a "rake of P-70's" that would be allowed similar speed. Much as I want to see it, perhaps even more than I would a PRR K4s at speed there.

Right now, we can't even get a repeat of Chessie 614's Port Jervis trips with in-service NJ Transit coaches. I can't even be sure they'd let Sandberg and 261 and train romp in 614's place. (I would wager on diving in a certain quarry near Birdsboro, Pa. and finding something of note instead.)

I'd be interested to hear what plans you have put forth to operate steam on NJ Transit that warrants the statement "we can't."

Has anybody put forth a viable plan to return steam to their rails since #142 went on to a permanent gig?

I don't pretend to know all the steam operators in the northeast, but of those I do, I have not been privy to any specific proposals for a steam operation that NJT has turned down.

I'd love to hear the details on what your plans were.

Rob

I've been told by several sources that NJ Transit, after the last round, has one prerequisite: "Cash up front, please."

If "Hollywood," "Atlantic City" or the like were to step forward with those kind of cubic dollars up front, I have no doubt it would come off.

But what was the "last round?"

I ask, because it may lay some rumors to rest.

Rob

.

We'll answer as soon as a certain individual is barred from talking to attorneys about internet websites with which he has a beef, or sending said websites' administrators threatening letters.

Until then, the only way to find out for sure is for someone in a position to operate a fast and powerful steam locomotive to approach NJ Transit with a proposal or even an initial inquiry. At this stage of the game, the only parties qualified to make such an offer/inquiry--aside from, say, Hollywood or a free-spending Richard Branson--are on the other side of the continent and/or in the middle of rebuilding their chosen steeds.

The other incident happened after the 614 trips. The NYS&W 142 was allegedly involved in a rules violation during a visit to the NJT Raritan Valley Line (CNJ). The alleged incident happen without passengers. I say alleged because I have never seen a formal report or disciplinary report, but the 142 has not been back to operate on NJT ever since aside from an NS move to position it in Phillipsburg.

And there you have the crux of the issue, and why I asked.

There were quite a few trips with steam after #614 was done. I suggest that the innuendo pointed towards the #614 team ending steam on NJT is counter productive and does not belong on this board. Actually, any comments about NJT being anti-steam are at best, supposition.

We will never know if NJT is open to steam until someone approaches them with a responsible plan.

Using this thread as another chance to take potshots at Ross does not help RYPN, the heritage railway community or its supporters.

Please, lets move on.

Rob