Not sure which existing Amtrak/F40 topic this might go under, so let me just throw this out there. There are three of the last group of 10 new (in 1986) Amtrak F40's (403, 405, 407) sitting in the CSX yard at Willard Ohio right now, probably way-billed to Larry's Truck and Electric (LTEX) at McDonald, OH (Youngstown) for scrapping. They might possibly be available to anyone who might want to try and acquire one to preserve or restore to operation. From the photos I saw posted, they are pretty rough looking externally, and the F40's that have gone to Larry's in the past have not come out in one piece.

These units follow hot on the heels of six of the ex-SR high nose GP35's that helped start the new Wheeling and Lake Erie in 1990. They went East to Larry's yesterday.

Interesting information Paul, thanks for sharing it with us. Also be aware that the retirement of some of the MBTA's original group of F40PH units is a possibility within the next few years. That group of locomotives last had a cylinder power assembly renewal about seven years ago and I am not aware of any further major program work being planned for them. They are structurally and cosmetically in better shape than many of the retired Amtrak units presently in circulation. However right now they are still very busy pulling and pushing commuter trains.

PC

Well until I have a treasurer and someone looks over my Articles of organization I can't do $#!+, Rail World has some F40's that they may sell (Probably north of 100K). I was also thinking about the MBTA ones but even if the state donated them to us, If we are a non-profit by then we would need money to ship them and I still haven't approached the board of the organization who's property I want to use to store them (though alot of them are aware of what I want to do) the reason being I don't even have an origination yet. Heck I can't even keep the website up to date because of computer problems. There is no Doyle McCormack to hook me up around here and getting anyone to commit to something that hasn't even come into being is next to imposable.

Actually the F40 on the MBTA that would probably be the most likely candidate for preservation in the future is the F40PHM-2C 1030. The locomotive has a lot of "following" locally for having survived the impact with the runaway freight car at Canton Junction a few years ago. Whether its current level of celebrity will be adequate to bring it some preservation attention when it reaches retirement, remains to be seen. That is probably still a number of years away.

PC

You do realize that it takes a lot more than simply a corporate board to actually create an organization, right?

Corporate status or not, nobody's going to take your group seriously if there's only three of you and you show up asking for a handout "because we're a non-profit".

Have to agree with Ed here.

You are obsessing about routine administrative formalities; you can get an incorporation package from legal zoom for as little as $139. (warning; that does not cover the IRS excise fee for a "determination letter"-last I checked that was going to be increased to $750).

Beyond this you need to evaluate, acquire, move, restore and maintain the locomotive. That's Mount Everest compared to incorporating's ant hill.

Perhaps its time put this on the "it would be nice, but I don't know how to.." list. I believe it was suggested before-get active with an existing group, "evangelize" them about the historic merits of the F-40. If that's too hard, starting from scratch will be impossible.

Those are "Knock off" F40PH's I don't really have any interest in those.

Yes I do but before I can do anything of that I need a non-profit corporation. I have to set a foundation before I build a house.

I am an active member of the Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum where I am an certified Operator (I can run the car with passengers by myself without a conductor), and I am Also an active member of the RMNE where I am a student brakeman. Believe me F40PH preservation is not on any of there agendas as they all have there own projects they are trying to take care of..

Believe me F40PH preservation is not on any of there agendas as they all have there own projects they are trying to take care of..

Once again, if you can't find and evangelize an existing group-whose interests can be expanded, starting from scratch will be impossible. Money is tight-and about to get tighter as state and local governments face increased costs and look for ways to cut back. This is not a good time to be taking something off the ground-and unfortunately, its always been the case that there's a diminishing window on obsolete locomotives-and people care when they realize the last one went to scrap.

To borrow your construction analogy-you are spending months looking through the yellow pages trying to find a brick seller, who'll basically give you bricks and free delivery because you want to build a mansion.

Being a certified operator is fine, but it doesn't really help with starting and running a business-and don't let anybody tell you a tax-exempt (once again, the term non-profit should be trashed) isn't a business. In some respects its more complicated because of the complications.

We all have limits-usually centered on paying the mortgage, and THEN allocating free time. Interest isn't enough.

RCD- I hate to be the dreamsmasher, but without the backing of a major organisation, you're not going to get far. I've been following your progress since I joined this board as I have a soft spot for the F40 as well. If you haven't found enough people with a similer interest, you won't get enough interest for your own stand alone group. I remember a previous thread where you were having trouble getting the money together for your non-profit paperwork. If you think that's expensive, brother let me tell you about a locomotive. How does buying $9,000 worth of fuel at a shot sound? How about 200+\- gallons of lube oil? This is all before you restore anything, if it even runs!

RCD, I hate to sound negative about all this, but without support from those who know, your dream is doomed to failure. My suggestion is to go find others who are actively restoring diesels, not trolleys Align yourself with them and learn all you can. Then use that knowlage to save an F40. Thats how most of us learned. Good luck.
Russ

The ideal situation is if you can find a locomotive that is "special" to the railroad management or the customers, a unit that has some celebrity status stands a much better chance of being donated or at least made available in a non-competitive sale. Lacking any management or public support for preservation, it becomes a case of who can offer the most money to get the unit. In most cases, railroad management has an obligation to try to get the best possible price for retired railroad equipment. For a while New Jersey has been something of an exception with some laws that assist preservation groups, but given the present financial situation in the state that may not be relevant any more.

Local groups tell me donations have just about dried up this year and volunteerism is declining, the recession is hitting everyone in their wallets. Not a good situation for starting an organization that will rely on support from donations.

Add to the potential costs of preserving an F40PH the expense of occasionally having a turbocharger rebuilt for a 16-645E3B or E3C engine. That starts around $20,000 and goes up to around $45,000 in the case of a catastrophic failure.

PC

Although donations seem to be down both organizations I am part of seem to be getting more volunteers, people have showed interest but not in the positions I need and because there is nothing to do at the moment until the paper work is done and this organization becomes incorporated. I have made some contacts and have even been invited to be the speaker at a Amherst Railroad Society meeting. A locomotive doesn't have to be consistently running to be saved in fact the F40 would probably end up being mostly static, with the possibility of having another railroad organization run it under contract, something along the lines of as long as you keep it running you can use it, or some other deal that would benefit the other origination (I am well aware that another organization wouldn't want to store the F40PH on there grounds without something in return). There are many ways to raise money also, I know it won't be easy and I can't just expect people to hand it over but merchandising is always a start http://www.cafepress.com/f40ph

If you want to sell some F40 gear, head on over to 4chan, those "people" LOVE F40PHs...

$850. However they are revamping the process this year to reduce it to $200. This is because the Form 1023 is very complex, and the vast majority of filers mess it up in the same predictable ways, necessitating a lot of hand work by the IRS, which they have repriced to pass the cost onto the filers. However, they recognize this is ridiculous, so they are revamping the process to use online computer assistance to force you to fill out the form correctly.

The Form 1023 is not a prerequisite to jumping in, doing business and acting like a nonprofit - so long as you maintain the intention of completing the Form 1023 within a year or so. Given the upcoming change to online and dramatic price drop, it would seem wise for a forming nonprofit to defer their Form 1023 until the online service is ready.

As for the rest, it is tedious but straightforward and you need to move forward on it, and it CAN happen fast. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... 30228.html
If you can't manage it, I would wonder how you got through college.

Frankly I think it would be a good idea if those operating steam on Class One main lines and need HEP for their passenger consists look at buying an F40, if they can swing it. This would obviously serve two purposes..provide hotel power and motive power,and anybody who has worked on a GP 40 could work on an F40. Nothing too exotic there...

The fuel consumption of a conventional F40PH with main engine driven HEP alternator can put a very impressive dent in your wallet when operating at light load. The locomotive really was designed for a much heavier duty cycle than you would see in excursion service, where the EMD 645 prime mover is working closer to its best BSFC for the power being produced. You might be able to make adequate use of the HEP output, but if you are not going to also make adequate use of tractive capability, the EMD engine will be working way off its best fuel consumption range.

If any of the F40PH-2C or F40PHM-2C with their separate HEP units ever come on the market, or any of the F40PH-CAT conversions, they would be a lot better choice for excursion service than a conventional F40PH, because the engine providing the HEP is sized properly for the HEP load. But right now the commuter agencies that own them are still running them, as they are still very viable locomotives for that service.

The homely full carbody HEP equipped GP's (commonly called "pigs" or "turtles" by the railfans) would also be a good escort locomotive. They generally have smaller CAT 3406 HEP units that are well sized to the load, and their cab and step arrangement is a lot easier for access. The view from the cab would also be a better for "over the shoulder" photography than an F40PH. Most railfans don't like the full carbody geeps very well, but they give you a much better view ahead than an F40PH does.

PC