A F40PH has 3 modes of operation Traction/HEP: where the prime mover provides traction power as well as HEP, and has to run at max RPM to keep the current in phase. Traction: The Prime mover only provides traction power and the locomotive runs like a normal freight locomotive. And HEP: the prime mover only provides HEP and is turning at a consent yet lower RPM then when it is in the first mode mentioned. So depending how you use it effects fuel economy. Those with more modern Solid State electronics it may be possible to rig an F40 to run with a varying engine speed while keeping a consent 480VAC, there is a ton of room in the nose that I am shure you could fit the solid state electronics to pull this off.

Any time you are operating in a HEP mode, including standby, the prime mover is running at a fixed speed to maintain AC line frequency (900RPM = 60Hz with the Delco HEP alternator, while in standby 720RPM = 60Hz with the AR10). The load requirement may or may not come anywhere close to the best BSFC point at the RPM.

If you are not going to operate the HEP then using an F40PH for escorting a steam locomotive (mentioned earlier) really doesn't provide you with much of an operating advantage over any other locomotive of similar horsepower, unless you like the aesthetics of the F40PH locomotive better than other potential choices or have an F40PH more readily available than other power.

PC

So much of your population of excursion coaches have onboard HEP, that I would tend to want to run the train on those instead of the F40. Not least because it beats snot out of the prime mover to rev it at 900 rpm at almost no load.

The only reason to run it in full HEP mode is for historically accurate demonstration, and for that you'll need a bunch of Amfleet coaches.

Or Heritage coaches used on long-haul Eastern trains up to the early '90's. You could even justify a train of PV's being pulled by F40's as prototypical, since AAPRCO ran trains like that to their conventions many times with F40's.

I really think there should be a close as-possible to original preserved, operational F40 or two in existence. There really is no other sound like an F40 powered passenger train generating full HEP arriving in a station, that sound of urgency, of something impressive happening. Never thought this major steam fan would wax poetic about a damn EMD!

The preservation movement dropped the ball with the GE P30CH's, and I really don't want to see that happen this time if it can be prevented. The argument could be made that failures like the P30 usually don't get preserved (like PRR T-1's), but the P30 was the first Amtrak HEP equipped locomotive, and as such was a significant unit that should have at least been statically preserved, probably at PSRM, in the state where they were built. Towards the end, they did have a tendency to burn down, which is one reason they ended their service lives segregated to the Sunset and Auto Train services.

And that's next on the preservation agenda.............. right? >:-)

Well, I'd hate to see them all disappear some day. But I'd say it is possible.

It's out of the scope of the efforts I'm involved in, but I'd love to see it done.

While we might joke about this now, the concept is no different than what the Erie Lackawanna Dining Car guys are planning to do with a 60's era long distance train. Just think, an 80's era Broadway Limited or Silver Service train would at this point all be museum pieces and in fact many of those heritage cars have made their way to museums or tourist railroads throughout the country. It may not represent the glory days of passenger railroading in the US but a couple of those screamers with a set of stainless and silver cars rolling around Horseshoe in phase III paint sure would look sharp. Just two cents from someone who only knows the Amtrak passenger era and grew up riding in those snazzy orange and red interiors.


Kevin

Just found out from my sources that the F40's at Willard are now supposed to be heading for Amtrak's Beech Grove shops. Any idea what they might have in mind for them. Cabbage cars perhaps? I suppose a better fate than outright scrapping, but again we lose them as original whole units.

If they are going to Beech Grove they most likely will be turned into cabbages, however there is a chance that some other group bought them and contracted Beech Grove to fix them up. For running preserved F40's the ideal set up would be two units on both ends of the train one providing pulling power and the other providing HEP (going 720RPM instead of using one unit to do both task running at 900RPM), this would also make it so you don't have to do the run around moves that so many museums/ tourist railroads have to do. use some super liner cars (and have a sank bar for extra revenue) and you would have something the public would enjoy riding as opposed to beaten up broken down train cars with no AC, while we may enjoy rideing this vintage equipment joe public doesn't seem to care, unless it is really old and vintage like the Strasburg Rail Road. For now though I am looking at just acquiring F40's mostly for display and maybe pulling a caboose or small train every once in a while.

Here ya go, "some assembly required"
http://sterlingrail.com/classifieds/cla ... php?id=465


These are in the Northeast, available at the price of a used automobile, and they probably have all the peices needed up there..... If Doyle can do it with a Alco PA, this could be "easier" since most internals are still common in the marketplace.

1. If all you want to do is ride air conditioned super liners with a SNACK bar, buy an Amtrak ticket.

2. I'd caution you on comments about "beaten up broken down train cars". I, for one, am a little curious as to what you're referring to there. You volunteer for an outfit with vintage passenger equipment. If you're not happy with the equipment, get in the restoration shop and help make it better.

3. As you have been told before, you can't cater to just one type of customer. You have to find a happy medium that jives with your organization's mission. F40's are significant to railroad history, but they are not yet a preservation priority.

4. Where do you intend on running your F40 after aquisition? It sounds as though you are starting an organization.

Didn't the T's -2C's get rebuilt fairly recently by MK/MPI?

Steve

Well, if that's what Amtrak is doing, then you should probably talk to Amtrak NOW and see about bundling up all the equipment they strip off it to make it a cabbage car. So you can roll it back to original when it's retired. You'd have to store a prime mover and a containerload of parts, but in the future... you'd have a real F40 of that vintage.

No preservation group could afford Beech Grove. Commuter lines, maybe. Hey, maybe the Ann Arbor commuter train, wouldn't that be something!


Don't run around. Push-pull with a brake stand, and preferably a remote throttle.


I don't disagree that there's nothing more noxious than a postwar sealed-window coach in "ten miles out-n-back" tourist excursion service. However, the whole point of historic trains is to show how things actually were back in the day, when it was this open-window train or the interurban.


Well, there is a quantum leap between display and operation, mainly in terms of maintenance. By "quantum" I mean it's a big jump, and you must fully commit to the jump, you can't do it halfway kinda sorta. Therefore, if you choose to operate, you better operate a lot. Hauling a caboose around once a month requires almost the same maintenance as hauling four coaches every Saturday and Sunday.

+1, I've bitten my tongue long enough, but I'm wondering too. Randy has a point and there's nothing stopping you from helping out.

You have to figure out what your goal is for your organization that you're starting. What type of service(s) will you offer your potential customers and equipment do you want and/or need. Basically what will draw them to what you're doing? I'm also wondering how much of a following/demand/interest there is in the Northeast for a F40. You can't count on a single piece of equipment to draw enough people to your organization to make it succeed. You need a game plan too BEFORE you buy the F40, you'll have to have a place to move it too, no sense in buying it and THEN trying to figure out what to do with it and where to move it. Don't put the cart in front of the horse!

Many of us keep pointing this out to you but you really need to think this fully through before shelling out the green.