3 of the 4 Deities are running for re-election this November, and the other in 2 years. They and their opponents are already asking for our $upport and votes. They are very desperate to preserve their Cost Of Living Allowance pay increases. A source of extra money to postpone tax increases until December would also be welcome. And a similar State Museum list of surplus exhibits was offered at public auction last March, to test the waters. Ross may have a chance, but I don't know if roller bearings are included.

I have heard this as well from others in NJT


But I would also like to add hope and dreams can come true, just feel free to share how you managed to pull it off Ross so every other organization can make the same attempt, myself personally

I would have thought that you would have an operating agreement in place before making an announcement such as this, to me it sounds like the carriage before the horse the iron horse that is

I know that Jerry J... abandoned the idea of regular steam excursions due to insurance reasons, and of course this also was a well financed railroad operation

So with that I say "good luck, but what is it you know that none of us do?"

Okay, I'm game. Let's get the legislators drunk enough to agree to anything we say.

Once we do that, we STILL have these conditions, according to He With The Cash Pledged:



Let's look at the Railroad Museum of Pa. collection:
Only three steam locomotives fit #4-- a PRR L1s 2-8-2, a PRR M1b 4-8-2, and a NKP Berk. Apply #3, and we're probably down to one loco: NKP 757, the "forgotten Berkshire." And to heck with #2.

Now, if memory serves right, Rowland and/or his comrades proposed 757 as one of two Berks for the AFT in 1974 or thereabouts (I think the other was 763 at Roanoke, now in Jacobsen's hands in Ohio.......... ooooooooh, [chin strokes]....)

Now, is 757 physically up for the task? That's for the guys with the ultrasound and hydro testers to tell someone who pays them.

Would state officials let 757 be leased for 15 years? That's not for me to say. I will note that there are other Berks available in better condition, and LOTS more of C&O heritage if we want to invoke Condition #1. And if leasing NKP 757 gets the Museum a restored and operable relic at the end of 15 years, hell, more power to them, and I will physically help if possible!

The one downside, and I think Rowland will concede my point: It doesn't matter HOW good the arrangement could be in the long run; it's possible for political opposition and the media to portray such an arrangement as "cashing in" and "selling off state history," which never sells well politically. This is on par with the old "closing the Washington Monument" ploy, used by both political parties in budget wrangles on the state and national level. I'm not getting into politics here, only using this to show how such measures are exploited politically.

Now, the more I think about Berks, though............ <:-)

Care to elaborate on what idea or event your post was discussing? :-)

Friends,

Let keep the guidelines in mind. Personal attacks and “put up or shut up” are not what we do here. Keep in mind that Ross is kind enough to share details with us here and there is no real personal gain in doing so. If it all goes off as planned, 3 Amtrak certified big steamers in the East might do a lot to attract new blood into our crazy avocation. be nice.

Your rookie moderator,

Tom Gears

If I may nitpick just a bit:

NS heavily rebuilt the F's they got to MAKE them as compatible with the rest of the fleet. They are effectively GP38-2's with HEP under the skin. Aside from the A1A trucks, there's no reason they couldn't have done the same to a pair of E8's or E9's--or even started with a pair of MK-rebuilt BN E9's which had EMD 645's already in place. Aside from the trucks, off-the-shelf E's and F's of comparable vintage had comparable innards.

Good luck Mr. Rowland, regardless of what engines you restore. God Bless you for your efforts.

Martin

Yes, you are correct. NS did rebuild them heavily to make them compatible with their existing four axle fleet, being that there's not a whole lot of 567 stuff out there in Class 1 service any more. The main issue was the trucks, since the remaining A-1-A sideframes are notorious for developing cracks.

Still, from a parts standpoint, domestic support for the early Dash 8's will likely become scarce. Most are being scrapped outright, or receiving aftermarket rebuilds and being sent overseas. As others have stated, if reliability is a concern, there may have been better choices than C39's.

Dear Ross:

Thank you for helping to keep mainline steam alive. I have to admit to being skeptical of this coming about, but that is more about the difficulty of the task ahead, including obtaining the approval of CSX or any other Class I today. Too many corporate chiefs today are all about money at casino return rates with no risk, as some of the current Wall Street crowd has demonstrated in recent years, and elements of this "disease" have been reported to infect the railroad business, too (Union Pacific, for instance, is apparently adamantly against any involvement in High Speed Rail service in California--curious, considering their heritage program as well).

I'll admit to having a personal hope you may succeed. I attempted to raise interest in a very ambitious West Virginia statewide steam tourist service about 28 years ago, and couldn't get anywhere. This state owes as much of its history to railroads as Colorado, perhaps more so, but does little or nothing to really exploit this, outside of the Cass Scenic Railroad. Now, Cass is a wonderful operation, I'm certain you've been there, but it's not the same as main line operations.

I still remember an interesting view of mainline steam from your own operation with the Chessie Steam Special in September of 1977. This was on the return trip, I believe you were out of service due to the hours of service law, and we had a C&O engineer on the return trip.

If I recall the location correctly, this was between Mount Carbon and Montgomery. Our train, with the 2101, was racing along at track speed along the Kanawha River in deep twilight. The sky was a dark, indigo blue, the hills black shadows, the river deep indigo, reflecting the sky. Pulling down my goggles, I looked ahead past the dark shape of the 2101 and its headlight beam as we ran up to a signal displaying "approach." We did not slow down, and the signal got closer and closer, and dropped to "clear" practically in front of the pilot. We roared under the signal, with immediately displayed "stop;" I can still picture the smoke from 2101 swirling in the red lights as my car raced under the cantilevered signal mast once so common on the C&O.

We started into a long curve to the right along the Kanawha. Visibility must have been for miles along this stretch, as visible ahead of the engine and its headlight was another signal displaying "approach." Visible beyond this signal was another, displaying "stop," and visible beyond this were two moving red lights--the markers of another train!

We roared along with no slacking of pace, getting closer and closer to the signal displaying "approach." I was watching this and the progress of the markers, too.

The markers passed another red signal. The first red signal dropped to "approach." The signal that had been displaying "approach" dropped to clear in front of the pilot. Again the signal almost immediately went to "stop," and again red lights sailed over my car. This went on for some time. It was a glimpse of what the 20th Century must have looked like running in multiple sections back in the 1920s, and a look at real heads-up railroading on the C&O in 1977.

Best of luck, and if you fail, it will not be a fault of vision or detail, but a lack of vision in the people you must deal with. How does that saying go? Ah, yes, "It's difficult to soar with eagles when you have to work with turkeys. . ."

Again, good luck, even if I'm not likely be be able to afford a ticket.

"I am a man of constant sorrow,
My wife spends all my pay. . ."

Thanks to everyone ( well almost everyone) who has contributed to this thread. This is where RyPN really shines.

As to the tiny band of NNN's I'd appreciate your forebearance in allowing the book of Matthew,Ch.7, verses 1-6 to say for me all I want to on this subject. Thanks for that.

As to the many PM's regarding candidate steam engines to fill the 2 slots as 614's stable mates here's where we're at. We will consider any engine the meets the 4 mandatory conditions as listed above.
Between now and Labor Day we will be constructing a comprehensive listing of ALL potential engines that meet those 4 criteria and we will make initial contact with their owner(s) to determine their level of interest, if any. From those contacts we will narrow the list down to those candidate engines whose owner(s) are sincerely interested and wish to move forward.
From that shorter list we will further narrow the list by applying additional criteria such as heritage, overall current condition, level of enthusiasm by current owner(s) etc. One important factor here will of course be the owning institutions ability to "do a deal" promptly so as to allow us to meet our schedule. Large hide bound institutions will be at an obvious disadvantage.
Those engines still on the list will then be given a thorough mechanical inspection and finally 4 will be selected to go to contract. The two final winners will be determined by who makes the best deal for the GBX Co. Remember that GBX Co. will be making a VERY substantial monetary investment in these machines, and business is business!!
Thanks to many who have had the foresight over the years, the nation is blessed with a substantial list of potential candidates. Some of my favorites going in ( NONE of which have yet been vetted in any way) are; the 2 H8's, the steamlined Hudson, 759,763,765,1225,700,611,1218,757,2926,3751. Our small committee will no doubt add others. Thanks again to all who have PM'd me on this.

Many have asked about visiting our Pottstown facility when we get going this fall rebuilding the cars. We will be allowing visitors under some fairly tight rules and conditions. All visitors must first register at the shop office, sign a comprehensive liability release, deposit any/all photo devices including cell phones and agree to stay closely with their escort officer. Hard hat,eye and ear protection must be worn at all times. Visits will be limited to 30 minutes.

Thanks again to all who have made a positive contribution.

Ross Rowland

I noticed that a few pretty rough passenger railcars have been leaving their long-term storage home on a local Pennsylvania shortline and going east...would these cars have anything to do with this operation, or is this purely a coincidence?

I found this link on the "Flimsies" section of this site. Apparently, Mr. Roland might get some competition from out West, or is this where his cars will go in the off season?
http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/article_175b8350-7ced-11df-acc3-001cc4c002e0.html

Maybe it is my naturally paranoid nature, but I guess Mr. Rowland is expecting me to chime in as one of his "NNNs." For the record, I have only clashed with Mr. Rowland on finer points of legal issues. I for one am skeptical, but it is my nature. My skeptical nature would be directed toward anyone who proposed such a grand dream, especially if the person proposed other grand dreams in the past that didn't come to light. That being said, past performance is not indicative of future results. Maybe Mr. Rowland can pull this off. Only time will prove one side or the other correct

With regard to his current proposed venture, a man should be able to dream, and we should allow him to do so. Mr. Rowland is putting his good name, reputation and enormous credibility within the preservation movement at stake with this newly-proposed dream/venture. If he pulls it off, it will be fantastic. If he fails, then I’m sure he’ll go back to the drawing board for another proposed revival of the 614.

However, it should be noted that one who dreams in public runs certain risks. If your dreams and grand pronouncements don't come into reality, and it happens more than once, then there will be those who justifiably question your future dreams and proposals. They shouldn't be labeled or called anything because they ask legitimate questions.

On the other hand, if one is prepared to dream in public, then they shouldn't get easily bent out of shape by those that ask questions. Like the boy who cried wolf, people are naturally suspicious of the Man from Sackets Harbor who cries "STEAM!" After all, by dreaming in public, you are accepting the risk that if you fail, it will be noted by all whom you proclaimed your dream to.

Given the current economic situation, it will be a small miracle to line up investment dollars for this. I'm not saying it can't be done, however. Frankly, it isn’t my place to question this. If it gets paid for, who cares? Maybe Mr. Rowland convinced the anonymous "moneybags" behind the DL&W 952 litigation to fund this venture, maybe not.

I get a feeling that in a few months, either Mr. Rowland or the "NNNs" will be proven right. Only time will tell. For me, it's time to pick up the needle scaler and get back to working on PCC car trucks...

Mr. Wilkins,

I don't think you were one of Ross's NNN's.

I would like to point out that the financier for the project has already been named as Mr. Jim Justice, owner of the Greenbriar Resort in White Sulpher Springs. Mr. Justice has more than enough money to put this together, though I hope the initial capital investment is enough to get the job done on a relatively tight schedule. Mr. Justice sold his Bluestone Coal operations in West Virginia to Russian conglomerate Mechel two years ago for about $450 million, but maintains substantial coal and farming investments in Kentucky, Tennessee, and one of the Carolinas (the farming). He is the major holder of debt for National Coal of Knoxville and one of his companies recently bought a substantial part of their operation. He has other investments in golf resorts and is one of (if not the) West Virginia's wealthiest men and, reportedly, his son oversees a good bit of the coal and agriculture interests. He is a relatively young man in his mid-late 50's, so has longevity on his side. Additionally, he is well connected politically and likely has many friends at CSX as well from his coal business and the Greenbriar transaction. He is a big booster for his state, though generally not in the spotlight, and his desire to return the Greenbriar to its former stature (and get that fifth star back) and help West Virginia in the process were prime motivating factors in his purchase. Not sure if approval has made it through the legislature, but casino gambling is in the works as part of the grand plan. Assuming they get that through, there's a good chance that the whole venture could make it thanks to the gambling profits.

Best,
Mike

Since 614 WILL have a key role in all of this, when will/should people start prep work on her?