Big Jim, i did not chase with my friends little boy, i would rather wait till he is a little older for that, if he was my son he would have been with me, but he is not, my friends don't quite understand the hobby either but they will do whatever it takes to keep their son happy it is me who has spark his intrest in trains, yes he has a sorts of thomas stuff, no haven't been to strasburg yet workin on it, the best news is my friend is pregnant again with another boy so i will do the same for him as the older one, and i am hoping that the hobby sticks with the kids as long as it has for me.
also jim i am in your video in port clinton after you pan i am by the bridge.
Matt

FWIW, the last time I chased a train, it was 425, and she was still painted black. Also, it was a two-run excursion, and I rode the morning train and chased the afternoon train. That was probably in 1994 or 95. I'm not saying that chasing is always right or always wrong, I'm saying there's a grey area, and if everyone was riding and no one was taking pictures, a lot of our hobby would not exist. (How many issues would Trains magazine sell if there were no pictures, but all text descriptions of riding excursions?) Rail-fanning is hopelessly connected at the hip to photography. I applaud efforts to give the paying riders run-bys in locations that are not accessible to chasers, but to try to eliminate chasing all together is fool-hardy at best.

wowak she would have been blue in those years, she was painted blue in 1992, do you know what trip

This thread is probably one that will never end. We all have our opinions.

Unless I missed a post no one mentioned that the fellow with the two year old had 5 operating steam locomotive to chose from (Ashland, Steamtown, P'burg, New Hope and the R&N) on Saturday all within 90 minutes of Jim Thorpe. Only #425 was on an unpublished schedule.

Also, #425 is running on a published schedule for 4 days next weekend out of Jim Thorpe, offering everyone a chance to ride and chase with 3 trains a day.

Mitch - I hear you. It's also not a black and white issue - I probably made it sound like one.

Wowak - If there is any railroad board where there may be members who have not chased an excursion, this would be the one. But your sentiment is well taken. I used to chase a lot more than I do now. Sometimes I contributed, sometimes not.

Sandy - The difference, and I think why your Facebook comment particularly struck a nerve, is that you of all people should have the wherewithal to figure out approximately when the train would be where.

I guess when it comes to this stuff I am an old crumudgeon. When my son was a toddler, I took him out to see many steam excursions that I knew he was too young to ride. But we never made an issue of needing a schedule. I looked at approximate departure times, checked a map and voila!

I grew up chasing trains, so I guess I also get a chuckle out of excursion timetables to begin with. How many run on time?

I think the first time I ran into Dave Crosby lineside was one such time I took my son to see #2317 on a Carbondale train when my son was 18 months old or so. It never crossed my mind that Steamtown should have given me a schedule.

Rob

I'm going to offer another perspective on this issue. I grew up in South Texas,where steam was rare and opportunities to ride (or chase) were as scare as hens teeth. My parents didn't have a lot of money, but I did have railroaders for uncles nad grandparents, so I was around railroads quite a bit. I knew of some people who were not as fortunate to be able to ride the rare steam moves through Texas. They were left with few options..chasing or camping out at a spot was the only way to be somewhat of a part of the scene for them. With the price of excursions going ever higher, chasing is the only economical way some folks can experience steam. I do understand that the trains have to be paid for,but there are some who cannot afford it. Some of those same folks who weren't able to ride but were able to have the chase/camp experience have grown up to become railroaders. Something to think about for our future.

Ross mentioned that more than 140 years ago, a transcontinental railroad was being built through about 2,000 dangerous miles of the United States, and that today, the Red Chinese "are blowing our doors off". Some of that Central Pacific was built by Chinese, instead of Americans. And some of that Union Pacific was built by Irish.

Here is another take on a published schedule, using Ozzman's original post, since the thread has been distorted a bit.

"does anybody know when she is to leave duryea and arrive in jim thorpe, i would like to take my friends 2 year old kid to see 425 he is in love with all sorts of trains, especially 425 after he rode behind her last year.
thanks Matt"

First point I'll make is that the convention committee was busy running a convention, so had no time to respond. There was no "information black out", just too few people taking care of too many jobs.

Second point is that any published information, no matter how updated it is, is considered a "promise" by the organizers. Ticket buyers and chasers alike take this as gospel truth. After many late bus and train starts earlier in the week, could we have guaranteed an on-time arrival that would keep a 2 year old and non-railfan happy? Would an NRHS train arriving in Jim Thorpe look any different than any other train, in their eyes?

Our first obligation is to our paying customers, just like in any other business. That audience enjoyed themselves and the trains greatly. If chasers and others had a bad time, what can they ask of us, a do-over? A refund? You get what you pay for.

I can't help but chuckle a bit when I read some of the opinions about the folks who chased the RBMN 425 excursion on Saturday. An outsider reading this thread might quickly conclude that these folks were all cut from the same awful mold, but from my observation (having been there), nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes, I chased the 425 on Saturday, along with lots of folks. They were young and old, from all walks of life. Some had a casual approach and were extremely friendly, while others were rude, obnoxious and drove their vehicles with reckless abandon. Some were just locals who wanted to see what all of the fuss was about and some (like me) had come hundreds of miles to see the "Blue Pacific". To put us all in the same basket is unfair. I especially take exception to the inference that anyone who didn't pay to ride THIS excursion must be a chronic freeloader.

In my case, the interest is photography....of steam engines. Train rides don't especially excite me and diesels don't have much appeal. For this reason, I prefer photo charters...as opposed to excursions....and have paid my way into as many of them as anyone here over the last 3 years. When I visit tourist railroads, I either buy a ticket to ride, take their shop tour (if available) or hit their gift shop for a book or video. I'm also supporting the local hotel, rental car, airline, and general aviation fixed base operators as I travel around.

In the case of this trip, riding the trains wasn't an option. Going to Scranton was a last-minute decision for me when other plans went south. The trains were long sold out. I still paid my way into Steamtown three days in a row, did the trolley museum, and would have gladly bought a "support pack" to chase the excursions if one had been available. Unfortunately, living in MA, getting pictures of the "Four and a Quarter" has been an elusive goal. She's not out that much and none of the regular charter operators has elected to run a photo special with her....yet. I didn't relish the manic chase with the masses, but it was the only option available at the time. I guess I don't feel a massive need to apologize for grabbing a few shots of her from public places as she raced across northeastern Pennsylvania with her sold-out train.

As for the rest of the chasers, my only beefs are the rudeness and reckless driving exhibited by a few. Honestly, even when I'm on an expensive photo charter, chasers don't bother me. As long as they obey the laws, and don't spoil things for the participants, I could personally care less if they chase the train I paid for.

Just my $.02. :o)

/Kevin

Can you tell me how a two year old will remember the experience, let alone a one year old.....

and if you've ever been on a plane flight with someone that young, have you considered whether the sound will be a pleasant experience....

and.... most of the convention events are repeated on a regular --- albeit not weekly basis with the Sunbury trip the only exception.

Bob

yes i can honestly say that my friends 2 year old truly remebers 425, yes he was only a year and a half his first ride and the day we rode 425 was wearing the steamboat whistle, and the sound did not bother him like most kids his age, further more on him remembering 425 everytime they are at my house he wants to see trains so we go on youtube, i have played a different train videos and asked him did you ride this one his answer is no, but show him 425 and ask the same question and he says yes. so him remembering what he saw and experienced is pretty amazing for his age, do to his parents jobs i cannot take him to ride her on the lgsr this year, and it's not that they won't let me take him it's just right now i don't have a vehicle i can put a baby seat in. Second in the world of trains steam and diesel alike in the hobby we all seem to share and care about why not get a 2 year old involved, giving him a hobby/intrest now in life could only mean good things especially if he stays involved throughtout his childhood and teen years, who knows he could be the next big steam operator who knows. i was only asking for a time frame for his parents so they could plan accordingly, i personally would have just sat and waited for her to come into town only caused i had no other plans that day. Third if they offered something to chasers to help support the steam program i would have paid for it. as i said earlier i also pay to ride the train without the support from riders why should Andy Muller continue to run her cause it's fun, I think not, it is to make a profit. I also hope that MY support will also one day help to bring back the great T-1 2102.
Matt

I know what you mean, I was appalled at some of the rudeness as well. I couldn't help but turn away and shake my head at some of it. I hope I wasn't one of the "reckless" drivers you're referring to. But one thing that did drive me crazy - was sitting in a 15-car line while one or two people at the front of the line paced the train for the entire time that the tracks were near the road - with nowhere to pass - at least share the pacing, people! :)

Why all the arguing...........How about some pictures or good comments about the trip. Alot of hard work went into putting it together.

SteamPWR,
you guys always put on one helluva good show for the riders and chasers, my vid should be done by the end of the week.
Matt

Thanks...it wasn't towards you. I remember alot of steam from a very young age. Its important to get the young children out to see them run. You never know when it could be the last time something runs. Just enjoy it people.

Hmm, maybe she was blue by then... they were runs from Ashland to Locust Summit. I coulda swore she was black but its been a long time. I'll have to go check my pictures.

edit: yep, she was blue.. I think that might have been the first time I saw her in blue, as the obligations of being in High School kept me away from Hamburg.