Norfolk Southern steam to return with SR 630,than 4501

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:17 pm

No, that's not what he said. However the chief competitor in the region has initiated something that NS was known for. Other factors may have been a part of the decision as well, such as the anniversary date for Southern and the fact that people loved to come watch the steam locomotives, which always drew huge crowds. Companies budget lots of money for positive propaganda, and perhaps, just perhaps, NS realized the mileage they could get from this move.
Another thought comes to mind. CSX has created a heck of a catchy slogan with their "Move a ton of freight 100 miles on a single gallon of Diesel fuel". What has NS done that is as identifiable?
Nobody really knows why these changes have happened, but they are for the better - for all of us. I'm prepared to just sit back and cheer them on, until the fruits appear for all their labors.

Steven Ashley · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:19 pm

I spoke with a friend in Chattanooga and was told that TVRM has known of Norfolk Southern's plans for at least a month, but was sworn to secrecy until the Press Release was announced on June 30. With that said, it seems unlikely for that and other reasons that Norfolk Southern would allow a decision by CSX to dictate what they do. I genuinely think that Wick Moorman is more of a railfan similar to Robert and Graham Claytor in addition to being a CEO. With that said, it is my hope he is at the helm of NS for a long time because as the end of the program in 1994 showed, once you lose executives who support the steam program, it is more than likely to end.

What I am really curious now is that the locomotives (TVRM 610, SR 630, SR 4501) have been announced, what about passenger cars, especially since NS sold off most of their excursion fleet in 1995. The only two coaches I am aware still on the NS roster are NS 28 and NS 29. TVRM could provide some passenger cars, then I suppose they could lease some of the Ronaoke Chapter NRHS cars stored at Spencer, NC or the Wautaga Valley Chapter NRHS coaches Clinchfield, NW 539 and the ex-ACL dining car Moultrie.

I'm looking forward to announcement of the first trips, which obviously are contingent upon completion of the 630's overhaul and successful test runs.

Steven Ashley
Spartanburg, SC

jcmark611 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:48 pm

I have no doubts that this program has been in the works for quite some time, possibly a year or more. The Southern 100th and NS 30th Anniversaries played very heavily into the decision. Also, with all the new "High Speed" projects coming up, NS maybe looking to make sure as many of those projects take place on their railroads as possible.

big-bad-2666 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:51 pm

jcmark611 wrote:

Just so I understand this correctly, you believe Norfolk Southern started a new steam program after CSX wouldn't move a steam engine? Mr. Moorman read the news of what happened and said, "Hey, lets start our own steam program!"

Is that right?

Yes that is what I said. I said it in a sarcastically way... It’s just a coincidence.

Termite7 · **Joined:** Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm **Posts:** 397

People seem to be reading more into the announcement then is there. NS had been kicking this idea around for a while, it was no real surprise. This is going to be a very limited and small scale program...nothing like the long distant trains from years gone by. Look for short excursions 1 to 2 hours long, in and very near Chattanooga. Indications are that NS may (maybe they did already) aquire some old commuter style coaches, nothing fancy.

So put away your dreams of recreating the Crescent Limited or pulling the 1401 out of the Smithsonian. This will be small family-freindly PR events..not day-long foamer outings. For those of you who have been buying stock in goggles and patches...sell short.

Hugs not drugs,
T7

filmteknik · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:06 pm

1401 can stay put. We just need Bill Purdie to make a Ps-4 as he was going to for Claytor. Take a USRA Pacific (A&WP 290 was one considered I believe. I have forgotten the other.) add the Elesco FWH, appropriate headlight, number plate, green & gold and there you go.

Steve

Steven Ashley · **Posted:** Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:38 pm

filmteknik wrote:

1401 can stay put. We just need Bill Purdie to make a Ps-4 as he was going to for Claytor. Take a USRA Pacific (A&WP 290 was one considered I believe. I have forgotten the other.) add the Elesco FWH, appropriate headlight, number plate, green & gold and there you go.

Steve

I believe former Grand Trunk Western USRA Light 4-6-2 5629 was the other locomotive considered by Bill Purdie and Graham Claytor, but unfortunately as with 290 an agreement couldn't be worked out. The 5629 was scrapped in 1987 in Chicago.

WMASS · **Joined:** Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:47 pm **Posts:** 27

In response to Termite7:

Politely, I hope these 1 and 2 hour trips are extremely succesful with the public. I also hope that in the future maybe 4-hour trips will be possible at least.

In response to people talking about 4-6-2's:
5288 owned by TVRM would be a prime canidate for restoration and would not have to be trucked from another location. She might be a little taller than a PS-2 or 4 but could be made to look like a Southern locomotive in passenger colors. That was what I thought when TVRM purchased the engine from steamtown. That is what I think though. None of this restoration work is easy.

jcmark611 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:52 pm

WMASS wrote:

In response to people talking about 4-6-2's:
5288 owned by TVRM would be a prime canidate for restoration and would not have to be trucked from another location.

My next question question would be; does TVRM have the money, manpower and shop space to keep 4 engines running?

aswright · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:28 pm

Here's a relevant story about a week old from the Roanoke Times:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/252275

p51 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:34 pm

Termite7 wrote:

People seem to be reading more into the announcement then is there. NS had been kicking this idea around for a while, it was no real surprise. This is going to be a very limited and small scale program...nothing like the long distant trains from years gone by. Look for short excursions 1 to 2 hours long, in and very near Chattanooga. Indications are that NS may (maybe they did already) aquire some old commuter style coaches, nothing fancy.

I wasn’t shocked by the announcement, not really. When NS has pulled out 1218 and 611 for their own events recently, I thought then that it was an indication of where the company might want to be again. The only thing that surprised me at all was the choice of motive power. But if in a few years an announcement is made to return 611 to steam, I won’t be overly shocked then, either. Overjoyed, but not shocked. I live on the opposite side of the nation to see any of these trips, but I’m very happy for those who will get to see these trips again.

WMASS · **Joined:** Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:47 pm **Posts:** 27

jcmark611 wrote:

My next question question would be; does TVRM have the money, manpower and shop space to keep 4 engines running?

I'm not saying that this is going to happen anytime soon. They currently don't have a 5288 Restoration fundraiser Like they do for 630 and 4501.

I plan to give a small donation for 4501's restoration. Spread the word out.

greg6780 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:39 am **Posts:** 6

We should just let this play out. If the public and others jump all over this like I think they will it is very likely that longer trips will be planned. No not the all out day blowouts but long enough to have a load of fun with a steam engine but still be back home in a reasonable amount of time. Gonna be an awesome ride either way. Thanks again NS!

jcmark611 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:35 pm

With 610 and 630 being the only locos available this year, I tend to agree the trips will be local to Chattanooga. Once 4501 is ready I could see them doing a small tour of the former Southern system, offering hour long trips on select weekends. I also wouldn't be surprised if they visited the 3C Corridor as that is one of the first high-speed projects coming online that greatly benefits NS.

I could see them possibly doing an annual trip a'la the Denver Post train for UP but, other than that the program will be modeled after CP's program. Short trips with displays at certain towns.

j32885 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:57 pm

Steven Ashley was asking about passenger equipment. Here's who owns what:

Business Fleet Equipment
01-SOU-Observation-Virginia-Norfolk Southern
02 (1A)-SOU-Sleeper-Carolina-Norfolk Southern
03 (500)-N&W-Observation-Claytor Lake-Norfolk Southern
04-CR (NYC)-Observation-Michigan-Norfolk Southern
05-CR (PRR)-Observation-Maryland-Norfolk Southern
06 (02)-SOU-Observation-Atlanta-Norfolk Southern
07 (05)-CR (PRR)-Observation-Pennsylvania-Norfolk Southern
08 (05)-SOU-Observation-Tennessee-Norfolk Southern
09 (15)-SOU-Sleeper-Alabama-Norfolk Southern
11 (16)-SOU-Sleeper-Illinois-Norfolk Southern
12 (491)-N&W (NKP)-Sleeper-Indiana- Norfolk Southern
13 (18)-SOU-Sleeper/GYM-Georgia-Norfolk Southern
18-N&W-Diner-Gen. William Mahone-Norfolk Southern
19 (494)-N&W-Lounge-Kentucky-Norfolk Southern
20 (07)-SOU-Observation-Ohio-Norfolk Southern
21 (08)-SOU-Observation-West Virginia-Norfolk Southern
23 (19)-SOU-Theatre-Buena Vista-Norfolk Southern
24 (553)-CR (ATSF)-Full Dome-Delaware-Norfolk Southern
26 (27)-CR (NYC)-Coach-New York-Norfolk Southern
27 (24)-SOU-Baggage-Exhibit Car-Norfolk Southern
30-SOU (CG)-Observation-Marco Polo-Norfolk Southern
40 (50)-CR-Boxcar-Generator-Norfolk Southern
41 (515346)-N&W-Boxcar-Generator-Norfolk Southern

Steam Excursion Equipment – Norfolk Southern, Ex-Regular Equipment
28 (501)-NS (N&W)-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-Norfolk Southern
29 (532)-NS (N&W)-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-Norfolk Southern
39 (1003)-NS (ATSF)-Baggage-Generator-Norfolk Southern
536-N&W-Lounge-Powhatan Arrow-Great Smoky Mountain
540-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-Western Maryland
726-SOU (CG)-Combination-Man “O” War-Western Maryland
841-SOU-Coach-Royal Palm-Great Smoky Mountain
842-SOU-Coach-Southerner-?????
843-SOU-Coach-Crescent-New York & Greenwood
844-SOU-Coach-Crescent-Western Maryland
845-SOU-Coach-Tennessean-Kentucky RR Museum

Steam Excursion Equipment – NRHS, Regular Equipment
206 (554)-SOU (BN)-Baggage-NRHS Southeastern
512-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-NRHS Roanoke
537-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-NRHS Roanoke
538-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-NRHS Roanoke
539-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-NRHS Watauga Valley
662-SOU (CG)-Coach-NRHS Southeastern
676-SOU (GN)-Baggage-Commissary-NRHS North Florida
1148 (1220)-N&W (GN)-Diner-Devils Lake-NRHS Roanoke
1827-N&W (WAB)-Coach-Pocahontas-NRHS Roanoke
2202-N&W (IC)-Vista Dome-Heart Of Dixie-NRHS Dixie
3305-N&W (IC)-Observation-Mardi Gras-NRHS Roanoke

Steam Excursion Equipment – NRHS, Extra Equipment
98-B&O-Observation-Eden Isle-NRHS Tenn. Valley
400-ACL- Diner-Moultrie-NRHS Watauga Valley
500-FEC-Diner-Clinchfield-NRHS Watauga Valley
531-N&W-Coach-Powhatan Arrow-NRHS Tenn. Valley
661-SOU (CG)-Coach-NRHS Tenn. Valley
906 (528)-SOU (CG)-Coach-NRHS Tenn. Valley
907 (543)-SOU (CG)-Coach-NRHS Tenn. Valley
899-GTW-Diner-Silver Lake-NRHS Bluewater
706-RF&P-Coach-NRHS Old Dominion
1006-N&W (SOU)-Coach-NRHS Old Dominion
1037-SOU-Coach-NRHS Tenn. Valley
1850-C&O-Vista Dome-Moonlight Dome-NRHS Promontory
2931-ATSF-Coach-NRHS Dixie
3158-SOU-Diner-Traveler’s Fare-NRHS Tenn. Valley
4527-SOU-Baggage-Commissary-NRHS Dixie
6604-SEA-Observation-Global Star IV-NRHS Bluewater
9486 (22)-CNR (NYC)-Combination-Haverstraw Bay-NRHS Bluewater

Steam Excursion Equipment – Tourist & Private Equipment
07-N&W (NKP)-Lounge-Kitchi Gammi Club-Virginia Rail Corp
53-MILW-Full Dome-Super Dome-Friends Of The 261
58-MILW-Full Dome-Super Dome-Railway Exposition Co.
113-C&O (PM)-Lounge-Eagle Canon-South Branch Valley
200 (7002)-N&W (UP)-Vista Dome-Roanoke-Kansas City Southern
277-SOU (D&H)-Combination -Coyahoga Southern
549-ATSF-Coach-Pomona-Blue Ridge Scenic
715-N&W (NKP)-Coach-Buckeye Trail-Austin & Texas Central
716-N&W (NKP)-Coach-Buckeye Lake-Austin & Texas Central
965-C&O-Diner-Gadsbys Tavern-South Branch Valley
1062-SLSF-Coach- NRHS Dixie
1231-Lounge-Railroad Power Leasing
1903-C&O-Lounge-Chessie Club-South Branch Valley
2209-SOU-Coach-New River Valley-Iager & Southern
3477-Coach-Atlanta Railcar-Railroad Power Leasing
5417-NKP-Coach-Frank L. Kerr-Orrville Hist. Rail Club
4802-GTW (UP)-Coach-Tennessee Central
4806-GTW (UP)-Coach-City Of Huron- Tennessee Central
6106-SEA-Diner-New River Gorge-St. Louis Car Company
7003-NYC (UP)-Vista Dome-Charter Club-Charter Wire Company
9401-N&W-Lounge-Pocahontas-Iager & Southern

Private Varnish Equipment
101-N&W-Observation-Blue Ridge-Morristown & Erie
208-N&W-Observation-Lamberts Point-North Star Rail Inc.
300-GEO-Observation-Private