I don't want to just bash on CSX here, I want the full story to come out, maybe get enough information to make a public awareness campaign maybe, get some bad press on csx.
I didn't know it was so bad till I see here, in one month, CSX axing 734 move, GBX steam, and now saginaw mainline connection. What else have they done lately?
When did they become so anti-preservation? So scared?
Do we know of a event or accident that triggered this lock down?
What about a changing of the guard so to speak, has someone bitter about thier past come into power, or do we even know who is behind all this?
When was they last CSX was friendly, where they ever friendly?
Yes I know they are a business, and they have no need to care about us, but UP has long recognised the need for public service, and NS did in the past, and now again. How about BNSF, where do they stand?
Does Amtrack run on CSX? I know 261 ran as a Amtrak train, but they wouldn't be able to run CSX would they? Or is that what GBX is doing/trying to do?

With all due respect, how is this likely to improve matters? I'd think listing these tales of woe and whining about them would inflame matters and cause existing wounds to fester!

In my view, the only way things will change is if various groups catch the eye of senior CSX management and impress them with professional operation- "off CSX track". Show them highly reliable old equipment... show them your people really know their stuff... show them you understand what it's like on their side of the issue... but above all, show them respect!

Then, maybe then, an informal dialog might be possible with these senior execs... hopefully, they might be swayed by what they see and start some changes.

How about inviting senior CSX management and execs to some of the more impressive events in preservation, located near CSX's territory? Give them some respect, and show them what you're up to... and TACTFULLY ask about policies if you sense they're receptive. Don't be pushy and aggrressive, whatever you do.

Negativity and flaming will guarantee CSX will never change its mind on these things.

Just my 2 cents worth... note that I am well outside of CSX's neighbourhood and pretty well unaffected by these policies (although definitely affected by other roads' policies).

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

yes, across upstate NY, on the former New York Central mainiline. (now CSX)
Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Albany-and out into Mass toward Boston.

and probably some other places too..
I know in western Ohio they are now running on NS..not sure if they run on CSX or NS
in eastern Ohio into Erie PA and Buffalo..but im sure they run on CSX Buffalo-Albany.

Scot

Like I said, I don't want to bash CSX per say, I just want to unite a cause. Everyone may have their own story, but all the stories together paint a bigger picture. Looking for patterns, looking for clues. It's to say, because CSX has done this, this and this that we would rather support another railroad instead. I don't want to open old wonds, but I think people should share what they know, instead of being bitter about it. It's like these old german WWII vets you finally see turning up on history channel.
I see successful safe railroads have great relationships with NS or UP based on their proven track record, but still rejected by CSX.
Something is fishy here, no matter?

Is CSX bitter it can't have a hertiage program because it's such a jumbled mess of mergers? (pun intended)

Its Amtrak
and they run lots of trains on CSX - Florida trains, Auto Train, Capital , Cardinal, Lake Shore etc.
Before you hit on a company you should know more about it

Thats what im trying to do here

Yes, Amtrak, i know, my mistake, i was pretty sure they did run on CSX, but i wasn't going to say it

Truth be told...helping non-profit choo choo museums is not the job of CSX. They have a job (as described by their share holders) and that job is to move freight and make money. Anything else is a distraction. Recently CSX has not been doing the best job of making money...so until they can return the profits to their shareholders like NS or UP currently does...do not expect anything to change.

This is a harsh reality. I know a lot of people who are holding their collective breaths waiting for CSX to change...but they may turn blue and fall over before that actually happens.

Hugs not drugs,
T7

I really see nothing fishy here. CSX is a modern American Freight Railroad. They don't make money on free moves, they don't make money maintaining connections to museums. They make money by moving freight. Not to sound like a crass capitalist, but it's what the board of directors expects. I think the "conspiracy theorists" are reading far too much into recent events.

I imagine the GBX was going to be diesel at start up from the beginning. Why invest the $$ in 614 or any other locomotive, if the host railroad won't let you operate it? Using diesels also means you get a faster start up time. When you are trying to start up your operation, get an operating liscense with Amtrak, etc., why spend additional money until you know it's all going to work? It's sound business sense to start as a diesel operation from the beginning.

From the risk manager point of view, running a railroad is one potential liabilty mess on top of another. Everything from FELA to grade crossings, to hazardous cargo can go wrong, sometimes all at once. If I were a stockholder in CSX, I'd want them to minimize risk as well. Banning "strange" equipment is probably one way to do it.

The other problem I see with this thread is that it imposes human emotions on a corporation. While there may be a corporate culture at CSX, I doubt envy at other railroads, or any other similar motion is involved. Every class I railroad today is mess or mergers, and that has nothing to do with it.

The sad reality is that those trains you see out there in the real world, they don't exist for your foaming or photographic enjoyment. They are engines (literally) of commerce, providing a service. Railroads invest literally billions in everything from track and infrastructure to locomotives, and employees. All of that money isn't spent so you can see 734, 614, or any other steam locomotive. CSX faced a nearly nasty fight with the Children's Fund, who held a lot of stock several years ago, just over whether CSX should spend money on track and other infrastructure and capacity improvements.

Don't like it? Buy enough stock in the company and get someone that is preservation or foamer friendly on the board, maybe a few directors. Until then, just understand that it is what it is.

David M. Wilkins
Crushed Dreams, Missouri

as far as UP, they only allow THEIR own steam to run on their rails, no one else's.

True enough, but companies do make money by advertising and running good PR programs. Recently CSX has been running TV commercials that play nationwide. I've even seen 'em here in Oregon, which is about as far from CSX territory as one can get. I'm sure it cost the company plenty to produce these, but have to wonder how many customers they're actually reaching or how much interest they're generating.

By comparison Union Pacific (a very successful company) puts a large portion of their PR budget into their steam program...and look what they get in return. Loads of name recognition and good will every time 844 or 3985 turns a wheel. This is by no means limited to the railfan fraternity either. Local TV and newspapers nearly always cover the runs, school kids are taken to see the big trains, and the general public turns out in droves. UP knows how to get a bang for their public relations buck.

It seems like there is a potential benefit for CSX too, in allowing some sort of heritage operations, even if the equipment belongs to someone else.

I think you are making a causational-correlational fallacy. UP is not a sucessful company because they have a heritage program. Instead, because UP is a sucessful company, they can afford a heritage program. UP gets exposure because a UP locomotive, with a matching UP painted train visits UP territory. A steamer labeled GBX, or one painted in NKP livery operating on the New River train doesn't give you that same exposure. In a sense, UP controls their heritage message, which is something CSX couldn't do simply by letting heritage operations on their rails. I'm sure if UP were to hit difficult financial times, the fancy calendars and steam program would be some of the first things to go.

Two companies in the same field can operate with different management and PR styles and still both be sucessful. What works for UP works for UP. What worked for UP didn't work for NS, but a different heritage program may work for NS with the recent announcement.

As apty stated by another poster, CSX is trying to become a more profitable railroad. That may quell some of the shareholder unrest that has marked the past several years. In the end, the management isn't going to do it by letting steam locomotives move over the railroad, it will do it by making money for the shareholders.

David Wilkins
Bean Counter, Missouri

Meanwhile, CSX has really gone out of their way to help the folks at the Historic Railpark in Bowling Green, KY. The Railpark has no connection to CSX track so, when they received a new piece via rail, CSX would shut down their main line while RJ Corman derailment crews would move the equipment from the CSX main to the Railpark.

Good to hear, and that what makes is so hard to understand why CSX would want to rip up 500ft of railroad that isn't hurting anyone, or charge $20,000 to keep it.

I think UP's pr program does genrate money for them, and I think CSX could earn revenue buy getting good press on helping the little guy.
People say that helping doesn't earn them any money, but I disagree, I think people believe in supporting companies that give back to the community rather than taking in the comunnity's money and ignoring the community.
I could see some possible future customers of CSX riding the GBX, having CSX promoted in a postive light on making that ride possible for them could get them some business.

Save our history is a very big "fad" everywhere, for many companies big and small, that preserve stuff from when they first opened, or to show the change they have made over the years, etc. I don't see it being anti business, waste of money for all those companies.

You know, I was driving to work one day and stumbled across the Iowa Interstate heritage unit and business cars out for a stroll. I saw many people slowing down to take a look, a few ppl run ahead and pull over and snap pictures. It's not a published event, it''s doing a job, yet it gets people's attention and makes them think.

To be honest, its all in who you know and how you ask. I do know the Railpark is something of interest in the higher ups on that particular division of CSX. The same could be said for any railroad, including UP and NS.

Also, you say the spur isn't hurting anyone when the article mentioned a rough crossing(s). You would not believe how many complaints railroads receive on just 1 rough crossing. On top of that, if the crossing is rough enough to cause damage to automobiles it could cost the company money as people will sue railroads if there car is damaged on a rough crossing.