As a note of info, the DL&W's "Pocono" (4-8-4) types also had air horns in addition to whistles. MILW 261 has one as well, yes?

Dave Crosby

you have to love your hobby, or your preservation interest, how many times have I answered questions on Kadee couplers on a different forum....

so you need a great level of tolerance.


Cheers.

Born and raised in Espee country, I've no real knowledge of east coast RRs. What purpose did this engine serve?, why 6 wheel trucks leading and trailing? While a beautiful engine, it does not make sense (to me) for non powered wheels to take that much of a load off the drivers.

In one book I read many years ago it was said air horns were installed because the RR bean counters said it was less expensive to blow and air horn than a steam whistle.

Mike
San Francisco Bay Area

The wikipedia article states that the engine was very prone to slipping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_S1

I have to ask, what is the advantage to having an air horn applied to a locomotive with a whistle? My first thought would be directing the sound forward. Anybody have a response to that?

Precisely. Air horns are normally engineered to be much more unidirectional than whistles, which are omnidirectional even with deflectors attached.

Furthermore, steam whistle efficiency, until certain very recent experiments by acoustic engineers, were horribly inefficient and ineffective at both the use of steam to produce high decibels and producing the lower frequencies needed to "punch" through fog or inclement weather. (Have you ever had a chance to compare the attention-getting abilities of--just as examples--the deep whistles on UP power, the K5LA-replicating chime on 2101/614 in Chessie service, or the N&W "hooter' on 1218?)

Jesus, why so negative Alex? I could see if every topic in that extensive list you supplied had already been posted as a result of this topic, but has it? Nope. I have been reading this forum for almost a year now and I've never seen topics that are THAT badly off-topic that it'd warrant that kind of attitude. Besides, even if there were....wouldn't that be where the moderators come in? Don't get so wound up over something that you're only pessimistically assuming will happen. Had my topic been something more eccentric along the lines of "Hey, wouldn't it be great if they built this type of engine again?" then I could understand some being frustrated, but merely asking for other posters to take a moment of their time and help me verify if what I'm seeing in the picture is correct isn't breaking any of this forums rules and thus, doesn't warrant a rude response.

*sigh*

I don't believe you're actually asking the question rather than just spouting a reaction to me, but just in case......

In my experience (16 years online, going back even to the alt.railroad newsgroup), people who start topics that are either marginally off-topic or of the nature of "what PRR steam loco would you rebuild?" are rarely seeking academic discussion or debate, but rather affirmation, on the order of "New Wallonia Big Wheel Beer is da greatest!! Who's wit me?" (The choice of a certain screen name instead of a proper name doesn't do much to defer that impression, incidentally. Jes' sayin'.)

Though we have moderators that will keep the most egregious stuff out of here lest it becomes a discourse on Jennifer-Anniston-versus-Kate-Perry, there exist scores of sites and forums that I rarely or don't even visit anymore, let alone participate in, simply because the noise-to-signal ratio has become untenable, on a variety of subjects. (At least we've managed to stay away from managing to blame almost anything on politicians, religions, or scientific zealots the way it seems many online forums have.)

I'm certainly willing to answer for the hundredth time why "7002" and 1223 are no longer running at Strasburg. We joke about--and roll our eyes at--the constant "FAQ" about PRR 1361 because they've become so constant that we could literally write an auto-reply with a neutral, non-committal answer to avoid the inevitable political diatribes that break out at the mere mention of the subject. (Hint, hint, moderators!) And we even put up with, and try to answer, highly obscure technical queries where some of us end up sputtering "A VERB, Senator! We need a VERB!" to quote an old Doonesbury cartoon.

But the dance around the "fine line" continues. An occasional link to one vintage photo of a now-preserved steam locomotive can easily descend, unchecked, to six or ten daily postings of links to any and all "cool old" rail photos the contributor found on eBay and with Google searches. (That was another debate over this forum/site's function filled with acrimony.) A posting of the consist of one excursion train could evolve into daily sighting reports at some museum, or even on the main line. And I've seen boards and forums lose their original missions over time at the hands of a vocal majority of participants.

Alex, I don't see why you are still bashing PRR Forever. I agree that just posting cool old railroad photos can quickly overun even a well controlled site like this one but the photo that PRR Forever was used to show and give proof of a historical attachment on a locomotive. If there was any real problem with this thread it would have been said by now from the moderators. I will admit that my "What PRR Locomotive should be restored" that you just bashed at me for was not in line with the guidelines and one of the moderators quickly told me that. I told him that I was sorry for the bad thread and then even asked him a question about a surviving B6sa on the Wilmington & Western RR. As far as I know the Interchange is open to historical questions about surviving or non surviving locomotives. We cannot have old timers, (or even non old timers, depending on what you are) bashing newcomers because they asked a question on a non preserved steam locomotive. This could quickly lean them off them off there intrest in steam locomotives as they will think that this is for old people and will make them look bad. Old timers have be kind to newcomers and answer there questions so they can learn more about and stay with there intrest in steam locomotives. Steam locomotives dont run all the time like they did when the old timers where kids so they have to have someone answer there questions so they can stay with there intrest. If a newcomer comes onto a site this and asked one wrong question and gets bashed numerous times by old timers he\she will quickly say (screw this!) and that will be the last of there steam intrest. So please be kind to newcomers and answer some of there questions and if the questions are not right for this site tell it to them kindly and don't bash them like you never want to talk to them because once the old timers are gone these newcomers will be all thats left to continue the steam preservation and restoration.

I think it has more to do with balance, an experimental engine more or less to test features. It was meant for speed with passenger runs, hence the streamlining, you wouldn't do serious freight with it. Instead of a 6-8-6 with huge siderods, its a 6-4-4-6 and smaller siderods with better balancing to deal with high speeds and rail pounding. The ACE project takes the duo driver design just for that reason of small siderods and balance, makes me wish that project could have taken off, but anyways.

Being slippery probably an offshoot from 2 sets of powered drivers, perhaps overpowered, maybe if the 2 sets were geared together like the ACE would have been some of the slipperyness would have been alleviated.

.

Actually, to show that I am, indeed, a contemporary-pop-culture dweeb, it's KATY Perry, not Kate.

And as a favor to him, I shall defer to the request of the more senior, more knowledgeable Brother Anderson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katy_Perry

http://www.katyperry.com/

http://www.myspace.com/katyperry

Hey, HE asked.

Yes. Each QJ has a whistle and an air horn, both operated by air valves. The Milw 261 has one as well, built with it , and continues to carry and use it in its excursion career.

At least she has a railroad sorta name...kinda. MKT...KATY..get it??? Ok, I know..get back to the boiler room.