Considering the condition of the locomotive it could be restored as an inoperable static display for substantially less money than restoring it to operating condition. I seem to recall a long discussion somewhere recently (RYPN maybe) about how operating diesels doesn't bring in as many customers as steam.

PC

Neither of them had trucks upon their return. It was one of the big drawbacks to restoration until similar trucks from the Erie-builts in Canada were located and acquired. In fact, TRAINS magazine put out an open solicitation in the early '90s for anyone who knew where to find exact PA or similar GSC trucks to please come forward.

The two remaining PA's in Mexico, #17 & #19, both have original trucks and are otherwise complete and BOTH in the same museum in Puebla. Recent reports say that one or both of them are even fired up on occasion. (Not sure why the museum needs two!) Any remaining useful parts from #16 & #18 had long since been removed to support the other two by the time they came back to the US.

Below is a link to Doyle's nkp190.com website photo archive showing all four of the PA's in Mexico and the (truckless) condition #16 and #18 were in at the time they were being prepared to return home.

http://nkp190.com/gallery.html?albumid= ... 3006307265

Why does the museum at Puebla need two ?

To display two different paint schemes-why else ?

DPK

Well, they're their PAs so I guess they can do whatever they want with them, but #19 now wears a paint scheme that no PA ever wore in service. The scheme #17 wears roughly re-creates a SP 'Daylight' scheme that she wore briefly in service in Mexico in the early '90s. Neither wears 'Warbonnet' colors, either ATSF or D&H, which they wore for most of their service life. Puebla museum also has a UP DDA40X 'Centennial'-- if only UP had offered to trade it for a PA!

Seems a real shame that no proper process of evaluation was opened to see where the BEST place for this priceless locomotive would be, the MARR seems to have its own major issues to deal with before it collects more stuff to rot away. A dedicated group would have been a far better idea for this machine, just one group dedicated to restoring one locomotive, no distractions, no pipe dreams and no yard full of scrap iron.
Mike Pannell

Wish anybody who wants to take on a project like this "good luck". This one requires wheelbarrows full of money. It costs $1.5 to $2.0 million to overhaul and rewire much more recent commuter locomotives that are in much better shape than this locomotive.

Trying to do it in a poor economy when donations have just about dried up makes it even more difficult. Don't get the impression that obtaining the donations for the recent ARHS and Tri-State F3 repaints was anything easy, both those groups worked very hard and made use of every communication tool at their disposal to make their dream a reality.

The cost for the PA restoration probably is the F3 repaint multiplied times at least 100.

PC

Ah, okay, if he supplied all trucks then I understand. Not that Doyle wouldn't deserve a PA anyway for all he's done for our hobby. And the fact that in his hands we will soon have a running PA to enjoy.

Which leads to who should get the other: It should naturally go to the entity that will best restore and preserve it. Operationally if possible otherwise cosmetic. And secondarily in a geographically appropriate location. Did ATSF run PA's to Texas?

Naturally I'd be partial to IRM getting it (being not far from the eastern terminus of ATSF) but realistically given how many things they already have to work on (not to mention it not being C&NW, MILW, or CB&Q, their favored roads) it would just get shoved off somewhere and forgotten. I'm still hoping one of the last original IC E's eventually turns up there but I'm not holding my breath.

Steve

I am often puzzled by posters on this forum. I don't understand the continual lack of encouragement for other organizations. It's not just lack of encouragement, but downright negativism.

the MARR seems to have its own major issues to deal with before it collects more stuff to rot

no distractions, no pipe dreams and no yard full of scrap iron.

The cost for the PA restoration probably is the F3 repaint multiplied times at least 100.

IRM getting it.... ...it would just get shoved off somewhere and forgotten.

The above are all opinions. Not facts. We can't roll back the clock to when PAs were available to be preserved. So now we need to work together as a community to support each other to preserve what is available today. I have to believe that a pat on the back would do more than a dagger in the back.

Tom P

There are two ex-IC E8's in storage in eastern Ohio (last I knew), basically operable--ex-Paducah rehash for NJ Transit, but still with 567's........

I'll be happy to counter with a fact:

Here's what the new owners of #16 have to start with, as it appeared in transit in 2000:



Please compare and contrast to "Lackawanna 664".

In other facts, raisins are dried grapes............

Now I know their already spoiled, but I think the muesum with the last surviving original SP F-unit should the the PA and paint it in SP Daylight or Black Widow paint scheme...now that would be cool!

Aaron, you mentioned "the muesum with the last surviving original SP F-unit".... what Museum is that?

What are the F7s you are thinking of?

Howard P.

I wasn't trying to be negative about an "other" organization. IRM is my home museum (associate membership and all that). I'm just being realistic that they have their hands full as it is and the PA is a real basket case. I hope the Smithsonian sought a new home with an organization that has the resources and will to make this unit presentable in some reasonable time frame. I know it will take a long time at best. If Dallas fits the bill then I wish them the best of luck.

Oh and of course it should be painted ATSF. One could make a good case for D&H but please, no more fakery.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the fairly recently rebuilt PA4's had a very short life in Mexico, that is, they really ran them into the ground pretty quickly.

BTW, whoever wrote the Wikipedia article says that 2 of the 5' 3" gauge units sold to the Paulista Railway (Brazil) survive.

Steve

I stand by exactly what I said earlier after having visited again the MARR website, they are building a brand new railroad on a new site and have to move 4230 tons of historic equipment from Dallas to Frisco, this is hardly the time to ne offered the basket case PA to look after.
Mike Pannell

Yes indeed my observations on the potential cost are opinions, and they are based on 40 years of participation in the building and the rebuilding of locomotives. Everyone should always feel free to ignore my opinions posted here as many others have done in the past.

The reality of the present times is that raising $20,000 to support a repainting is very challenging right now.

PC