A suggestion came up at one of our meetings for the consideration of adding a cab ride as a ticket class. Do any of you have experience in this area? What measures do you take to protect the railroad from incidents or lawsuits? Do you have riders sign a waiver? What is the FRA's position on tourist railroads selling cab rides? I've many seen other railroads advertising them, but I never knew how they got around regulations in order to make it legitimate and safe for both parties.

Thank you!

I don't mind it, but I don't know what the FRA has to say about it though. We have pretty much stopped doing it, but it still happens from time to time. The biggest issue I can see is that you have to have a purpose built seat for everyone in the cab, so your mileage may vary. The biggest issue we had was the extra distraction in the cab. It didn't bother me, but others said that they did not want the cab riders.

We offer them in Coldwater regularly, both to fellow railroaders and paying customers. We have never had a problem with it in the past as far as FRA goes. Last year in Owosso we had 2 FRA inspectors, 2 fireman, a pilot and an engineer in the cab of 110 for a trip so obviously it must not be too much of a concern.

The Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley and the Upper Hudson, both of NY, are receptive. Steamtown advertises and charges for it on their yard shuttle. Reading & Northern offers cab rides for a certain fee on their steam engine and dress/footwear requirements must be met.

Joshua

We had a seat on top of a storage bin on the front of 1522's tender that folks could ride on. We removed the sand hopper and built this in it's place.
I never cared for too many people in the cab. If they stayed back on the seat, that was OK but if they got into the cab between my fireman and me I didn't like it. 1522's cab wasn't that big to begin with. One time we had 12 people up there.
I kept thinking about if a water glass broke or something like that it would be a disaster.
Better safe than sorry.
Maybe we should have left the brakeman's doghouse on the tender that she had in her last days on the Frisco and sold premium tickets in there.

For steam operations...

New Hope and Ivyland offers them everyday, and for a very reasonable price, I might add.

Wilmington & Western also offers them, though at a high premium in comparison to the above.

Both have requirements, and you must sign a waiver, and are limited to one rider... but NH&I particularly, has a good response from it.

If you're that afraid of something happening in the cab, you should put up a barrier between the engine and the station platform too...because something can just as easily go very wrong, very quickly there, with possibly more injuries than just one cab rider. In your case, you're using diesels, so, not so much a problem.

I think the best way to do it is sort of how W&W does it (at least they did), they become a member with the purchase of the price of the cab ride ticket. Not only do you build up your membership numbers, but you also get revenue in two ways. A ride and a membership.

As much as I enjoy showing guests what it takes to operate a locomotive, having several people in the cab beyond the crew can be ignorant. Someone mentioned the question of a sight glass blowing out. That was a good simple question. Hand firing a coal burner can be a hassle for the fireman if someone is standing right behind his elbow the whole trip, and some people don't get the hint of an elbow to the rib. I wouldn't suggest making a set number of cab riders, but the size of the cab can determine if you can safely take one or more people for a ride; making a set number would fluctuate from different locomotives or operations.

When I worked for the D&S cab riders signed a waiver and were given overalls, a work shirt, glasses, ear plugs, and a cap as part of the package. They needed to have their own shoes, and were informed before and after climbing up that they needed to stay out of the way and what to expect once we started rolling. Dollywood no longer offers cab rides despite a safe record, but maybe the right pitch on pulling in more income through the experience could turn that decision around.

One last thing, don't let a lady with sandals or a white blouse, now matter how good looking she is, let you waiver from what discretionary rules you have set. I've heard from several places that people complaining about getting dirty or crying children when the whistle blows have changed the attitude towards allowing cab riders. Most everyone who read this board I would imagine has that intuition to know better in that situation, but just remember that it's 2010, not 1970.

Thank you for the suggestions and comments everyone. Since we run only diesels, it is slightly less complicated than those of you that run steam. Cab rides have always been a grey area. One member did bring up the W&W method of making them a member before they ride to be covered under our insurance policy. Would any of you be able to direct me to a location where I might be able to read a waiver to see what items are included in it? Thank you!

A few comments regarding this topic:

1. The FRA doesn't have any regulations against having cab riders. The only grey area I know of has been with engineer-for-an-hour programs due to federal requirements for locomotive engineers, but this doesn't sould like what your museum wants to offer.

2. The "waiver" issue is an old chestnut that comes up from time to time on boards such as this. If you think having someone sign a waiver will stop them from suing you or pursuing any other line of redress, regardless of what the waiver says, think again. The waiver isn't even worth the cost of a sheet of paper to print up. Having your cab riders become a member is only slightly better from a risk-management standpoint.

3. I think the key issue is mainly the increased risk of a slip-and-fall injury from a cab ride. Cabs of steamers or diesels aren't very easy to get in for even young and robust people, and a single slip on a handrail can cause a long fall to the ballast or a railhead. Another risk to anyone in the cab is a grade-crossing collision with a truck or other large object, but in insular operations such as Dollywood this isn't an issue.

Chris.

I read that Dollywood stopped cabrides when they changed tenders, and the new tender doesn't have a place for the rider that the old tender did.

There is an upside to this though.... and why I think it is still worthwhile.

When I was a teenager just old enough to drive up there I was welcomed into the cab of Arcade & Attica 4-6-0 #14, watched a lot and learned more. Tried my hand on the coal scoop, got to know the crew, came back regularly. I got the steam bug bad, and that's where it crossed over into hands-on interest beyond the bystander.

Several years later I discovered that the 'cab ride' was the ultimate test of tolerance for a potential wife. If she could 'get' that experience, then I probably had a keeper.

It's now been 25 years married, the cab ride test apparently works. All three of my now grown sons have been in the cab as well at various times.

Yeah, its a PITA, a risk, and an issue, but as we're looking to be interesting, relevant, and get people interested and caring, it is one of the most powerful tools out there when used properly. I'm in full agreement with protective clothing (shoes and gloves) and if you're a coal burner, safety goggles, and a 'cab briefing' for safety is an absolute must.

Randy,

I completely agree -- It is my firm belief that while a concern for liability is obviously a valid one, not allowing visitors severely hurts in the efforts to maintain a strong steam following. A good cab ride can leave very positive impressions. I can't imagine anything a steam operator can do that is more powerful in perpetuating that interest.

Glen Brewer
http://RailroadGloryDays.com

The only thing I would add to this discussion, if you are going to give cab rides, make them turn off their cell phones.

The FRA regulation only covers on-duty employees. Riders are free to use their cell phones. Don't forget that many people now use cell phones to take pictures and videos.

I understand, comply with, and enforce EO 26 on a daily basis. A railroad can adopt a more stringent policy as long as it meets the federal minimum standards. Like an old head told me along time ago, just because you can does not always mean that you should.