On the history/hobby side I have quite a collection of photos and documentation on PA loggers. Many of these locomotives carried hoses on the tenders or tank for siphoning water from streams.

One locomotive - a Lima-built 'standard plan' 2-6-0, 1910 (Hickory Valley RR 5), has the hose on the tender frame, but also has a very odd-looking fixture on the back that appears to be the siphon hose connection, feeding back into the tender tank. How exactly did this work? Was there a steam siphon like an overgrown injector somewhere, or an actual steam pump, or what?

I have the Lima drawings for this (thanks CSRM!) but there's no notes on the siphon system.

Here's a photo of the back of the tender in 1938, and if you look close, there are what appears to be bullet holes in the tender, too. Ya gotta love loggers.
http://gustafson.home.westpa.net/Hv5D.jpg
You'll also enjoy the dual-purpose coupler pockets. They were still using link-and-pin log cars right up until shutdown.

That should be the siphony thingy.........the small pipe should be steam supply, with the short section pointing out being the pickup line. probably pushes alot more volume than a regular injector and , of course, it doesn't have to work against boiler pressure.....my question is: even at that time wouldn't they have had a filter of some sort on it? to keep from getting garbage in the tender and boiler- or would it not have been a concern?

Yes, this is the steam siphon on the back of the tender tank. Yes, the small pipe is the steam supply, and the hose is attached to the short large size nipple. There are two words used for a venturi type system: INJECTOR and EJECTOR. An Injector is usually the term used when the discharge of the device is directed into a pressure vessel, such as a boiler. An Ejector is used when there is no pressure vessel pressure to overcome, such as filling a tank. Thus, using this terminology, the steam siphon is an Ejector. Ejectors are still very common in industry today.

I've been spending several weekends in Cass, WV and have kinda been "up close and personal" with this stuff lately.

MJ

The end of the hose that went into the creek usually had a sort of perforated tin can strainer on the wet end. This was all the filter used apart from the strainer between the tender tank and the injector (assuming the blacksmith didn't remove it when the injectors got balky and he had a lot of saws to sharpen that day and didn't want to take time to mess with it.)

dave

As an aside, steam road waggons and traction engines in the UK used the exact same system; when they got low on steam, they just stopped on a bridge, tossed the hose over the side, and took on more water with the siphon. A few of the older bridges still have holes with guides in them for that very purpose.



Some logging locomotives had a steam pump mounted on the tender for use as a fire pump; I don't know if they could reverse the piping and use it to fill the tender as well.

Ejectors as mentioned above are used on many different applications. Not only used to transfer water or other liquids, they are also quite often used to raise the temperature of the medium as well. They are sometimes found in chemical and manufacturing applications.
Attached is a photo of a smaller scale ejector made by Penberthy, the same people who also make injectors. This particular ejector is often used by hobby personal steamboaters to remove water from the bilge to overboard. They can also attach a hose for washing down and for fire fighting.

Randy,
If you are interested in seeing siphon systems in actual use, go down to West Virginia and go to Cass. Ride either the Bald Knob train or the Spruce train and you will get to see locomotives getting their water using siphons up on the mountain. Also, in Durbin, WV I have watched the Durbin & Greenbreir Valley RR's Climax use a siphon to take on water from the Greenbreir River. I don't know if the D&GV does this every trip. You should find some friendly folks at both places to ask questions of.

If you look closely at the photo you can see what looks like the strainer on the siphon hose end. What I couldn't understand was the lower pipe on the connection - it looked more like a passive drain than a steam line, but yeah, that would function like an injector if that were a steam line there. er....ejector, I stand corrected and learned something myself. Thanks!

I've even been on the Cass trains and watched them pull from the trackside tank and been unable to see just what was happening when they did that. That's a pretty simple concept and would explain why you don't see 'pumps' on little logging engines, or for that matter, anything that even resembles much of an appliance.

Next time you're down that way, ride the Durbin Rocket (a Climax) out of Durbin, WV. On the return trip they take on water at a creek and you'll have a front-row seat from the first train of the car (fireman's side).

This was one of the John E. Thompson engines that was on his farm property, later relocated to the defunct winery south of Monee, IL. One of the engines that was relocated to IRM in late 2008 has also this set up but I don't think it's the same engine.

Steve

When I've fired steam I've always been fascinated by injectors anyway, both the design and the physics involved, and the 'feel' a fireman needs to have with a touchy one. Having pumped water out of streams for garden irrigation with an electric piston pump, I'm painfully aware of just how much vacuum has to be generated to get a lift of any distance unless you can drop water back DOWN the line to push the air out first; "priming" it against a foot valve, then siphon it back. So while I see it, and scientifically know it works, I've got to see one of these work someday. It sure looks simple enough; a basic venturi force. When you figure that 'every' Climax A and most of the B's were equipped with them going back to what, 1885?, they had this deal figured out a long, long time ago. And pumping water out of a stream for a garden also acquainted me with all the 'stuff' a good pump can pull up. Ever pull tadpoles out of a sprinkler head?

Thanks for the tip on the Durbin Climax, I've been down there but never seen them pull water. Maybe I can convince John to demonstrate it for me!