Santa Fe Steam in Sacramento

meuritt · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:55 am

A friend of mine recently visited Sacramento by boat. Being interested in trains he visited the museum and enjoyed it, but was unable to find out about a locomotive he saw from the river. He asked museum employees about it but was unable to find anyone who knew, or cared. It was, in his words, a very large locomotive with what seemed like a very large tender. He thought it wasn't quite big enough to be an articulated, but might have had ten drivers. It was located on tracks away from the museum, his description sounded like it might have been at the old SP shops, but I think he said south of town.

I looked at the CA RR Museum site but their list of locomotives seems pretty incomplete. Anyone have any idea at all what he night have seen?

thank you
Mike

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:52 am

My wager: He laid eyes upon the "back lot" stash of the California State RR Museum, which includes a large collection of Santa Fe motive power donated by the Santa Fe in 1986, which included 4-8-4 2925 and 2-10-4 5021:

http://wikimapia.org/14641926/ATSF-5021-2925 (Photo links on this page as well)

http://atsf.railfan.net/atsfpres/atsf5021.html

Quote:

In 1986, Santa Fe donated the entire historical collection of locomotives at Albuquerque, including 5021, 2925, and many of the diesels listed on the main page, to the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA. The collection was moved west in early April 1986. Unfortunately, the CSRM had neither the facilities nor the resources to properly house, restore, and care for the engines. The 5021 and most of the rest of the Santa Fe historical collection was stored outdoors, and mostly out of public view, at the former Southern Pacific Sacramento Shops, where it is shown in the upper view at left. Environmental remediation of the former SP facilities resulted in the engines being moved to a spur along the museum's excursion train track in 2008. The lower view shows the engine there in 2010. The museum took the precaution of removing the boiler insulation and most of the "collectible" items on the engine, but the resulting appearance is truly heartbreaking. The museum's long term plans for the locomotive are not known.

Unseenthings · **Joined:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:51 pm **Posts:** 155

Well it could be in the north rotting in it's jacket, but still heartbreaking indeed.
Props for the steps they have taken, wish they could be restored

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:49 pm

A friend of mine who is big in the steam business told me that they inspected the two engines when they were in Belen. From the records and their observations, at that time they could have gotten a flue extension and run. They were in excellent mechanical condition and being stored in the dry roundhouse and moved regularly helped immensly in keeping them preserved.
A good bath after firing up to remove the pigeon dung and off we go.
The 2925 was apparently studied for restoration by the RR, but an astronomical price was put on the restoration, so it wasn't done.
A lot of groups would be ecstatic to have an engine in the condition they were in to start on.
Not so much anymore. Darned shame.

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:53 pm

There is a contradiction in these statements. First it says the engines are "ready to run", but then it says they needed a very expensive restoration. The first description is used as a comparison to judge the current engines' condition, but is it accurate?

Frisco1522 wrote:

A friend of mine who is big in the steam business told me that they inspected the two engines when they were in Belen. From the records and their observations, at that time they could have gotten a flue extension and run. They were in excellent mechanical condition and being stored in the dry roundhouse and moved regularly helped immensly in keeping them preserved.
A good bath after firing up to remove the pigeon dung and off we go.
The 2925 was apparently studied for restoration by the RR, but an astronomical price was put on the restoration, so it wasn't done.
A lot of groups would be ecstatic to have an engine in the condition they were in to start on.
Not so much anymore. Darned shame.

davew833 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:35 pm

I've heard the mid-'70s restoration cost estimate for #2925 was around $100k-- practically pocket change for a restoration these days. $100k seems rather high to me given that other big steamers that were restored in the '70s for probably less than that, but I'm sure Santa Fe wouldn't have scrimped on anything. I've heard also that contributing factors were the lack of an excursion consist and infrastructure/funding to support ongoing operations.

Randolph R. Ruiz · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:30 pm

This topic gets revisited about once a year, but I don't see any new information here. The Santa Fe collection is a topic that upsets a lot of people who I feel unfairly blame CSRM for not being able to secure the equipment despite the fact they tried and failed to gain support to do exactly that.

It is a lot easier now to say they should have broken up the collection, and while I can imagine how various groups could have absorbed a piece or two, the desire of the Santa Fe would seem to have been to keep the collection intact. So who was in a position to put the Santa Fe collection indoors in 1986? I think much of the blame for the collection's deterioration falls upon the shoulders of the Santa Fe for not following through on their promise to support the construction of the Museum of Railroad Technology, which was really a huge storage building and restoration shop masquerading as a new museum for the sake of funding.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25582&p=115484&hilit=2925#p115484

Unseenthings · **Joined:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:51 pm **Posts:** 155

Good project for BNSF to jump on the steam PR program bandwagon

David Johnston · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:12 pm

The two large Santa Fe steam locomotives are now sitting on the levee about a mile south of the Museum right along the river. They were moved out of the former SP shops to facilitate the enviromental clean up of the shop site.

Mike Swanson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:47 pm

Randolph R. Ruiz wrote:

This topic gets revisited about once a year, but I don't see any new information here. The Santa Fe collection is a topic that upsets a lot of people who I feel unfairly blame CSRM for not being able to secure the equipment despite the fact they tried and failed to gain support to do exactly that.

It is a lot easier now to say they should have broken up the collection, and while I can imagine how various groups could have absorbed a piece or two, the desire of the Santa Fe would seem to have been to keep the collection intact. So who was in a position to put the Santa Fe collection indoors in 1986? I think much of the blame for the collection's deterioration falls upon the shoulders of the Santa Fe for not following through on their promise to support the construction of the Museum of Railroad Technology, which was really a huge storage building and restoration shop masquerading as a new museum for the sake of funding.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25582&p=115484&hilit=2925#p115484

You're spot on about Santa Fe being responsible for the entire mess. AT&SF management wanted to rid themselves completely of the collection and as quickly as possible as part of an effort to "clean up its properties" prior to the never-completed merger with Southern Pacific; part of that effort also included demolishing the roundhouses at Albuquerque and Belen which housed the collection. That same management probably would have been quite happy to dispose of the entire lot piecemeal if it could have done so quickly; it couldn't, so they dumped the entire lot in CSRM's lap instead (the Cyrus K Holliday and its passenger train had already been donated to the state of Kansas, which has placed it on display indoors at the Kansas State Fairgrounds). CSRM was an unwitting victim; Santa Fe was the real villain and the party responsible for this fiasco.

Mike Swanson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:51 pm

Unseenthings wrote:

Good project for BNSF to jump on the steam PR program bandwagon

I've heard some rumors or suggestions that BNSF might actually have that in mind; I wouldn't bet on it, though.

Brian Norden · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:21 pm

Years and years ago (I think back in the 1970s) the Santa Fe moved the 5021 to the shops at Argentine Yard near Kansas City for a review for a possible excursion/PR program. Nothing came of this and the locomotive went back to Belen.

Within the company a list of former passenger cars in MW service was made up for possible conversion for this program. Again nothing happened. Except it was after the consideration ended the former Parlor-Obs 3209 (ex-1204) was gifted to Orange Empire.

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:57 pm

Actually, it was the 2925 which went to the shop in Texas for review.
The price arrived at was using all paid help in their shop, so even at that time, 100K wasn't off the chart. I had heard of the equipment issue, but would have thought they could have laid hands on enough for excursions. I'm not faulting the ATSF, just saying it's a shame that what could have been didn't happen.

Brian Norden · **Posted:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:18 am

Thanks for correcting my faulty memory.

CSRMDocent · **Posted:** Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:59 am

Good Morning,
I was on here and came across this discussion about the two Santa Fe locomotives (4-8-4 2925 and 2-10-4 5021) that are owned by the California State Railroad Museum(CSRM). As a docent with the museum, I thought I would give those of you interested a short update regarding these two locomotives. As many of you know they had been parked south of the museum and pretty much forgotten about. Good news they have both been moved in to Old Sacramento and are currently located between the Sacramento Southern Depot & the Delta King Riverboat. The plan is to clean them up and repaint them. Then they will be positioned on the track between the SSRR Depot & the CSRM turntable so the public will be able to check them out. As for completing a total restoration on them money still remains a problem.

Attachment:

ATSF5021a.jpg [ 81.06 KiB | Viewed 16655 times ]

Attachment:

ATSF5021b.jpg [ 90.71 KiB | Viewed 16655 times ]

Attachment:

ATSF5021c.jpg [ 70.74 KiB | Viewed 16655 times ]