I think that I shall never see a thing as lovely as a weed.
They grow ner' wheel and spoke and hose...
They grow from gate to fence and rose.
I sawr the weed of depth and density
Covering every bit fencity.
Hinder my travels far and near...
spilling of my cold Stag Beer.

(seriously...that place is a joke. Check it out for yourself.)

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qh748x ... 7559248824

Whoa that is a lot of equipment! Definitely too many passenger cars for their own good. But I see other problems. No parking area, no visitor center, it just looks like a yard of rusting equipment, even from 500 feet in the air. Does the museum own that triangle of land and building next to the bus garage? That would be a great place for parking and visitors center. The collection should be rationalized, eliminate perhaps 10% of the equipment here, starting with the privately owned rolling stock. Get down to a core collection that serves their mission and remove the rest. Looks like a good spot down by Rogers Street to cut up cars.

Maybe make a deal with CSX to have them bend the rails one time to let an entire train worth of equipment leave? Perhaps in their next lawsuit they could request that as an alternative. Mad River & NKP does this from time to time.


With 10% of the equipment gone that would clear space for the construction of a car barn and restoration shop, perhaps in the corner where the camp cars/troop sleepers are at. Put the better parts of the collection inside, especially the locomotives. The rest of the equipment could be rotated in for regular maintenance.

Does the museum not operate at all? They have enough track for a short ride. Maybe give cab rides on open days to the end of track and back. That 65 tonner is easy on fuel. Twenty bucks for a cab ride perhaps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0NCR4kC0xc

All of this should be organized within a strategic plan for the museum, and then devise and implement a fundraising strategy to pay for it. Like may older rail museums this one probably has a dwindling and aging volunteer workforce and has a reduced capacity to make the changes needed. But that is a recruiting failure. Cincinnati is a big metropolitan area. The volunteers are out there, they just have to find them.

Can money be made from private rail cars these days? I know it seems groups are doing fewer excursions because the cost of renting cars, but would a person ever get a return on investment of spending $100k plus or whatever it costs these days to rebuild a nice car and have it amtrak certified?

Museum site as of this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAoliznumw

Center cab operating at least two years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QXLAG-Js3A

It looks a though theres a connected "industrial" or siding track off the mainline that comes within spitting distance of their track. probably wouldn't be hard to connect to, no mainline switch.

I finally had the time to take a look at the museum site on Google (Latonia, KY) and that, combined with the YouTube video and Dean's photos show an overcrowded, cramped property. As a former freight yard, they'd have to remove every other track to open the place up, but they can't because of all the equipment sitting there. Dean, I'm guessing your shots were taken at the west end of the property. Looks like the only place where you can stand back far enough to get end shots like you provided in the first post, and the most likely place to get grown up and cut last. Everything else is so close in the yard a casual visitor probably wouldn't wander down between the cars. Not very far, at least.

I would bet that some of the museum members/officers have anguished over how to improve their situation, but if there are a lot of privately owned cars there and no easy way to get them out of the way, what can they do? From other posts they are trying to thin things out some, and if they can there would be better opportunity to do caboose train rides. Clear off the outside tracks on the north and south sides of the property and you've got a pretty good length of track in a "V" to run on, similar to what SERM does at their site in Duluth, GA. Looks like some other opportunity to expand operations if they could arrange for use of the property next to the 2 tracks along the south of the museum, or east of their gate. As they say, all it takes is money.

The same opportunity for a "V" run would be available to the museum I used to be involved with if the additional trackage that is unused by NS could be acquired. Not gonna happen with the current director, though.

I wonder if the Pass-A-Grille Beach is privately owned, or the Lake Okeechobee? If I could just win that lottery! What else is in there, I wonder?

Thanks for posting the photos, Dean. I really wish them luck with getting their switch put back in.

Mr. Levin,

Your scathing post has shaken me at my very core, and caused me to do some serious soul-searching.[/facetious]

For me, Mr. Levin's comments have gone beyond the constructive nature of this forum. If my comments are the cause of Mr. Levin's over-wraught attempt to rebuke me, than I apologize. My main point was to just say that a few photos of rusty equipment alone are not enough to condemn a museum or organization. We're all guilty of having rusty garbage on the "back 40."

Time and time again, Mr. Levin has posted photos of equipment on this forum. Most are informative (for example, the NOPB business cars), others, I feel, are Mr. Levin's attempt to stir up trouble

Then again, I forgot that RYPN is the Judge, Jury and Executioner of bad museums. As such the forum and some of its members are the sole arbiters of what is "good" museum practice, and thus have full license to "eat our own." People must be held accountable, and posting photos on RYPN will probably cause "heads to roll" in Lationia, Kentucky, and elsewhere.

David Wilkins
Blind Advocate for the Acceptance of Under-Achievement

Stephen,

You raise a good point. Their web site does not have a complete listing of equipment. For example, I do know they have an L&N 2500 series coach. These were modernized by the L&N from combines after World War II. The car was cosmetically restored for an L&N historical society equipment in the 1990. The car has a sister, 2554 at KRM, but that car still has the "bus windows" installed by the Clinchfield when it was part of the excursion fleet.

I know of at least one car that has left the collection in recent year. They had a former GM&O sleeper "Judge Milton Brown" I think that is now at the Casey Jones Museum in Jackson, TN.

Also, I wonder what kind of condition their PRR E unit is in? I wonder how long they've had it.

Just an observation: I've been to Cincinnatti a few times during the past several years and had no clue this place existed, although I was working on railroad preservation projects which included research at the history museum in the old Union Terminal downtown. It seems difficult to gain support if nobody knows you are there, including others in your business locally.

dave

We seem to get back to the website issues over and over again. It is one of the most effective ways to reach an audience, is relatively inexpensive, and so much of this hobby and industry fails to take full advantage of the potential that a website offers. Seems like it should be a topic at every industry meeting.

PC

First I want to make a quick comment to Wilkins...is there something wrong with stirring up trouble? Sometimes just some sunshine and fresh air can clear up a lot of problems. I read and re-read Dean's posts and I do not see anything wrong with them...he just stated some facts, asked some questions...posted some pictures. There is a saying we have down south..."throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that hollers is the one that you hit".

Now...concerning this so-called museum...sometimes if you drive over there you will find that they are not open as the sign on the gate says they should be. That is no way to build a following.

Also there are some cars that they got from TVRM...I was told they planned to restore those cars. But there they sit in EXACTLY the same shape they left TVRM. No restoration. What gives? I think TVRM offered those cars "to a good home". Should they send them back to TVRM?

The weeds...in addition to the unsightly appearence and the hazard to visitors...they can also be a serious fire hazard...no need to explain.

If I was CSX I wouldn't put a switch in there either...sorry.

T7

Mr. Wilkins ( and the forum )

First, please understand that it is not my intent to exploit the run down, neglected and abandoned hopes and dreams of the American railroad museum, only in some way to shed light, in a case where it appears darkness has taken over... Unfortunately, without proper care, this collection of perhaps one time valuable and historic equipment, is becoming lost for their own preservation attempts, and perhaps the ability for an outside group or individual to mount an effort... In theory, it is because someone or some group cared enough, that say the Lotus Club is at the RRM o PA, or the Navajo is preserved in Golden. If these cars,did not have care takers, such as the cars in Cincinnati, they would have likely be lost, neglected or vandalized... my initial posting was only to ask for an explanation, and perhaps raise attention to a situation that appears to be rapidly deteriorating...

I quote you "We're all guilty of having rusty garbage on the "back 40." I would like to disagree.. Although I care only to speak for myself, I do not own any rusty garbage on the back 40. I buy equipment, that is worthy of preservation, with a preservation plan, budget to restore, and endowment for its long term preservation and operation. I am not a not for profit, nor am I tax exempt, nor do I own 10 deterioating cars awaiting their turn or hope for preservation...
..
Under the above premise, is it not ok ( on this forum ) to wonder when you see a yard of mostly neglected passenger cars, to simply ask "why"... It is certainly not intended to create trouble.... as if that was indeed the case, there were much more glaring and disturbing images in Cincinnati that could have exploited that scenario..

However after reading the lovely poem by T7 regarding the weed covered siding, I was so touched by the weed and Stag Beer reference, that perhaps I now realize that hopefully all members of this forum ( in some way ) share the desire to see railway preservation, we all just don't agree with the method of how it should be accomplished...

Thank you Mr. Wilkins (In keeping with T7's poem I would like to send you a 12 pack of Stag beer ( your choice .. cans ot bottles ) as a gesture of friendship ) and T7 ( for the well written poem about the weed covered siding ) and all posters.


Dean Levin

( T7, for your creative effort I share a recently enjoyed Stag en route, and the weed covered siding , as a tribute to your writing abilities )

Sunshine and fresh air only clear up problems when those who do the "airing out" are in a position to do something. There is a problem stirring up trouble amongst the readership of this forum, a group that really can't do anything about the alleged injustices happening in Latonia. Nobody on this forum, to my knowledge is: 1) a member/volunteer of said museum 2) a member of said museum's governing board governing organization and/or 3) someone that can do something about it. Frankly, I think it's bad manners. In the past when I've had an issue with a museum I've visited (access issues, dangerous conditions) I've taken the matter up privately, instead of asking "questions" on a forum such as this.

All of that said, Mr. Levin has stated that his intentions were pure. Given the informative nature of many of his posts, I see no reason to refrain from taking him at his word.

You could make the argument that there are members, directors and management from other museums that could make an offer for some of said equipment, but the museum's attempt to deaccession has already been publicized here. As you said, TVRM has acquired some equipment. Paring down their collection is in process. Frankly, I'd like to find a home for the L&N heavyweight coach pictured in Mr. Levin's photos (car with chain link over the windows). L&N non-modernized heavyweights are rare and their numbers are thinning.

Even the best-run museums are usually wary of what a friend of mine calls "internet volunteers" from telling them how to manage their collections and facilities.

If this group, or any museum for that matter, is going to get "enlightened" it is going to come from within, the membership and the volunteers. The fact that the group is offering surplus equipment shows a move in the right direction. Sitting behind a computer screen, posting photos, and asking "questions" doesn't fix anything.

People like Mr. Levin can do private preservation because they don't have membership, factional membership, competing goals, or other issues that many museums run into.

It seems that what I term the "first generation" railroad museums were massive collectors of any and all equipment that was available. For many, concepts such as focusing your collection, having a theme, etc., were lost upon them. In the end, the situation in Latonia, and elsewhere is a direct result of the past. As museums move into their second or third generations, many are trying to dispose of surplus equipment, some of which I doubt will find takers. However, without this first generation, many treasures would have met the scrapper's torch long ago, and long before people like Mr. Levin, or other museums could acquire them.

Sadly, what this thread may highlight is that you can't save everything.

I thank and applaud Mr. Levin for his offer of Stag beer. I did not know they even still made it. I heard they quit after some hillbilly drank it and went blind. Seriously though, I appreciate the gesture, but I will pass. I live within sight of Anheuser-Busch's St. Louis Brewery in historic South St. Louis. I wouldn't want to anger the neighbors....

You might be interested in watching this video of the GE 65 ton diesel operating on the entire length of operable track - including outside the fence. It shows a lot of track clear of weeds, and that a short caboose ride would be within the realm of possibility. The date of posting is October 2008, so it was operating then, at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0NCR4kC0xc

I suspect some of the principals of the Railway Museum of Cinncinati are hereabouts. Just to remind folks, they have been looking for homes for a fair number pieces of equipment (though I don't know how much has moved at this point). It looks like less than was listed previously.

To refresh folks, especially those who might be able to act on it...

http://www.cincirailmuseum.org/surplus.html

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT