My New Obesession: Grice & Long mine lokies

robertjohndavis · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am **Posts:** 2499

Hi,

Continuing my fascination with steam machinery developed for the anthracite coal industry in eastern PA, I have stumbled across Grice & Long, a steam dummy and mine lokie builder located in Trenton, NJ in the 1860's.

Lehigh Coal & Navigation and Lehigh Valley Coal were customers.

Does anyone know if any kind of rail products of Grice & Long survive?

Rob

Dave · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:29 am

There's a Grice in Atlanta and a Long in Savannah, but I'm not sure if they ever got together.

dave

Stephen S. Syfrett · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:32 am

Sorry, thought you were talking about long-grain rice...

Stephen S. Syfrett · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:13 pm

Sorry, Rob. That was uncalled for.

That is a very interesting little engine. Looks like the exhaust was straight up...wonder how that affected bracing in the mine, or would it?

DBH · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:23 pm

I love all things coal mines! What a neat little engine. I worked in a gold mine near Silverton on the track crew & we had some interesting railroad stuff underground.

Dave Huffman.

survivingworldsteam · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:56 pm

Rob;

Looked through all of my databases, and came up empty.

It is possible one of their compressed air mine lokies exist somewhere. I have found quite a few of them; most of them built by H.K. Porter, but not all of them. I think I am first person to try to document them all; so there could be one out there. Good luck in your search.

Regarding the upward turned exhaust; since this locomotive was powered by compressed air, I doubt it would have hurt the mine bracing; but it must have thrown a lot of dust in the "engineers" face all the time.

DBH · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:15 pm

I am a Puter' idiot BUT I found several listings for Grice & Long on Google. I think Mid Contient Muesum has the best info.
DBH

robertjohndavis · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am **Posts:** 2499

The lokie in the picture is - according to the page it is posted on - steam powered, not air and was in service at the Packer No. 4 Colliery until 1901.

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/lvhist.Html

In anthracite-speak, lokies were steam locomotives used for surface operations.

That does not rule out underground use of steam locomotives in the earliest days of anthracite mining. More than one anthracite historian I have spoken with believe this was at least tried.

Rob

DBH · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:02 am

From what I read they went out of business in 1871 so it might be hard to find any left. Also from the article you posted they were used on some mine branch lines. Also with the stated return flue boiler it seems that they were fired from the opposite end from where the engineer was located. Looks kind of unhandy. Also with the small size of the pressure vessel, & figuring the time frame they were built I doubt they were air powered.
Of course I could be totally wrong

DBH

survivingworldsteam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:45 pm

Rob is right and I am wrong; looks like compressed air lokies did not appear until around 1880; after Grice & Long disappeared. Sorry about the confusion.

It must have been a very unpleasant machine to be around underground; conditions were bad enough without throwing in a steam locomotive. I know they had stationary engines underground to drive dewatering pumps; so a steam locomotive is possible as well.

DBH · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:38 pm

There was a coal mine near Danville Il. that had the boiler & hoisting engine at the bottom of the shaft. The stack from the boiler went up the shaft & the draft through the boiler helped ventilate the mine. This mine was the Glen Burn mine near Kickapoo State park. I believe it was active around the turn of the last century.

Dave H.

survivingworldsteam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:44 pm

DBH wrote:

There was a coal mine near Danville Il. that had the boiler & hoisting engine at the bottom of the shaft. The stack from the boiler went up the shaft & the draft through the boiler helped ventilate the mine. This mine was the Glen Burn mine near Kickapoo State park. I believe it was active around the turn of the last century.

Dave H.

Yes, that is the arrangement I am thinking of; a steam locomotive obviously could not vent to the surface; so it would slowly poision the air in the mine.

My guess is when compressed air lokies and electric railways came out; Grice & Long's products quickly disappeared.

o anderson · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:39 pm

Early industrial steam locomotives do not seem to be very common in preservation. I know of five, a few other early workhorses might still exist.

The 1860s Cuyahoga furnace locomotive in Negaunee, MI

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/steamjacksoniron.jpg

A track inspection locomotive (1880s?) at the Shelburne Museum

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7N3Z_The_Gertie_Buck_Shelburne_Museum_VT

The Oregon Pony at Cascade Locks OR

http://www.portofcascadelocks.org/museum.htm

And the Falk and the Gypsy, two late 1800s Marshutz & Cantrell locomotives at Fort Humboldt State Park in CA

K.R. Bell · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm **Posts:** 298

From my soon-to-be-published biography (and bibliography) of the eminent retired Smithsonian Transportation Curator John H. White, Jr., is an article by JHW that may be of interest if you are a follower of Grice & Long:

“The Cover Design ‘Steam in the Streets: The Grice and Long Dummy’,” in Technology and Culture, Vol. 27, No. 1, January 1986, pp. 106-109.

~K.R. Bell