If I can ever get back down that way I'll go check it again and take digital photos. Yeah, I don't think it would be much of a candidate for operational restoration!

In October 2007 or so, someone came in the Thronateeska Heritage Center office and dropped off some builder's plates. I didn't meet the individual, and I don't believe they even left their name, but I decided to research them since the Executive Director didn't even know what they were...or cared. Anyway, turns out they are from 2132. Bet those are rare. Last time I saw them he had them in his office along with the summary sheet I prepared about the locomotives construction.

And Dean...sorry for hijacking the thread. Really interesting about the RICHMOND. It would be interesting to find photos of it sectioned.

Based on my understanding of the typical Pullman heavyweight frame construction, using the heavy center sill, other than being an extreme approach, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I believe some significant frame work has been done to various heavyweights to run on Amtrak, so what is the difference? You'd certainly want some qualified people to handle the job.

Bottom line is that the frame design of a HW probably makes the concept doable, especially if the car is already in poor condition with a need for a new floor, side sills, etc.

I wouldn't rule it out, although I wonder about the cost trade off with taking this approach versus moving it as a unit. However, if a car has a good original interior its probably not a good approach, but if its the only option, I suppose it would again be the route to take.

J.R. May

The cutting does not seem to be much of a challenge...but imagine welding back together a heavyweight with plenty of wood and horsehair inside! I hope they had a firehose on standby.

I remember hearing stories of the Army cutting tanks in half and flying the parts into Burma (I think?) to be reconnected. How much material would you loose in such a cut? The side of the Richmond does not even seem to have been affected.

Interesting.

T7

What a shame. The old car has nice lines, and the few SAL cars I've been in were usually tastefully done on the inside. I would guess that as long as you were careful, getting it welded back could be done, and making it structurally sound could be done as well. Many roads have lengthened cars over the year (thinking freight here) and they were subject to considerably greater buff and draft loads than most passenger cars will ever see. Budd would even splice center sill sections in new fabrication to conserve material on occasion.

Yet one more car doomed to oblivion in a soon to be failed restaurant. What a shame.

Looking on the bright side, maybe in a few years we'll be able to buy the 917 at the foreclosure auction and bring her back to Roanoke..................

ok... thought I would throw in what appears to be a bit of history about the SCL Richmond that might make the story a bit more interesting....My facts are pretty solid... so here goes.... It is believed that this car ( the car that is cut in half ) was built in 1912, and had a connection to the Missouri Kansas and Texas RR .. Although it is believed the car was built as a private car for a Mr. Hawley ( who owned a percentage interest in both the MKT and C&O )... the car upon his death was returned to Pullman where it was resold to H.E. Huntington...( of Pacific Electric fame ) ...becoming his San Marino ( first ) ... The car was slightly rebuilt by Pullman before delivery to Huntington... and when it was delivered it was lettered for the San Joaquin and Eastern Railroad....( with the name San Marino ) .... so to make the story a bit more complex, Henry Huntington ( who was the nephew of Collis Huntington ) .. of C&O and SP fame, remarried his uncle's wife ( Arabella ), after his wife passed away......Now, Collis had his private cars Oneonta 1 and Oneonta 2... ( which Henry inherited ... however he kept Oneonta 2 ( renaming it San Marino # 2 ) .. this car was a wooden combine of sorts.... ( now he also owned a private interurban car named Alabama ... ( which was named after the home state of Arabella ) ... which ultimately had a fire and was scrapped....

Now....here is the problem.... Arabella ( per letters from H.E. Huntington to Pullman ) thought the interior was took dark and drab, in San Marino # 1 ( which became the SCL Richmond ) and in lieu of keeping the car, Henry gave in, and in 1915 ordered another car ( which was delivered by Pullman ) as the San Marino, and sold off the first San Marino ( the SCL Richmond ) ....the new San Marino was delivered in 1916.. rendering the first San Marino disposable... Henry went on to use the San Marino till his death ( in I believe 1927 ) and was brought home after his death ( to the San Marino ranch ) in the car from Philadelphia.. ( then it was sold to the SP to become SP 107 Delmonte ) .. San Marino # 2 was previously sold off to the SP and ended life in M&W service.....

The first San Marino ( now the Richmond ) apparently went to the USRA for a bit, before going to the Seaboard ( or Seaboard Air Line ) at the time... and later became property of the Seaboard Coast Line.....

Now, if not for Arabella ( both the wife of Collis and Henry ) ... who knows what would of happened.... ( as remember it was Arabella who ultimately inherited the massive fortune of her husband Collis, along with Henry ( who also did pretty well in the deal ) ....

And if records mean anything, it is believed that H.E. Huntington owned more private cars at one time, than any one individual..... ( Oneonta 1 and 2, San Marino # 1 ( that later became the Richmond ) , San Marino # 2, and a new 1916 San Marino, along with the custom interurban private car Alabama .....

Must be something to be learned here..... somewhere ?


Dean Levin

Dean -

Thanks for all the info. Very interesting. You failed to mention that you are the current owner of the 1916-built San Marino.

Les

Les,

Maybe Mr. Levin should acquire the Richmond, he could then have collected the whole set!

Seriously, anyone have interior shots of the Richmond? I wonder how "modern" the interior is.

David

I finally got over to The Buckeye Express Diner. The food was excellent. The owner is well known in the area for his quality restaurant food. The Richmond sits behind the restaurant. It is being fixed up for lodging and will soon be available. Sorry about the quality of the photo, unfortunately in a senior moment I forgot my camera but my nephew had a cell phone.

Ken

Thank you for posting the picture.....Do you recall what the car was lettered for ? I can read railroad company, but not the first half.....

A shame an otherwise good car was cut in half......


Dean Levin

Mr. Levin, Do you have any plans to cut your car in half? Now that we know this technique works will we be seeing more of this type activity?

T7

This poor car isn't the only thing being cut in half recently.

Marine Atlantic, who provide the ferry service connecting Newfoundland to the rest of Canada, recently leased two ferries to upgrade their service.

These ferries are too long for the port facilities, and a big slice is being taken out of their middles:

http://ntv.ca/video/?p=8723

Apparently the ships were cut in half previously to have an extension welded in, and this is the section that is now being removed.

Since Marine Atlantic no longer has a need to carry freight cars, there is no real railway content here. However, it does suggest that if a ship can be cut in two and be welded together again, it's not inconceivable that a railway car could be perfectly serviceable after such an operation, if proper methods and skills are utilized.

The Newfoundland ferries run through some very heavy seas, and I'm sure the stresses involved would greatly exceed the buffer forces encountered on the railways.

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

T7....

only a piker would take an operational car and cut it in half.... however I have been told in your neck of the woods, it would not be uncommon to remove a roof off a heavyweight.... and then realize you have no clue how to put it back together...? Care to comment or share a story ?


Dean Levin

I'd LOVE for T7 to tell this one....

... and sadly a missing office car roof is the least of it.

TRUST ME....From what I know of passenger car construction this car was not cut in half. They may have tried to cut the roof and side sheet but as you can see there is no evidence of a cut on the center sill. And cutting the roof and side sheets would only be the beginning, you also have all the interior partitions, conduit, air conditioning duct work, etc. By cutting the car in half you would seriously comprised the structural integrity of the car and how would you support the car perfectly to weld it back up. If you look at the photo of the car painted the camber of the car is good and this would be imposable if you "Welded the car together". And is so happens I know who PLATFORM cars source is and he is far from credible.