Thanks for update! Lot's of 2-8-0's being restored to opreation this year!

Good news indeed - unfortunately just about at the end of normal excursion/trip season.

And the beginning of the ever popular Santa runs!

PS - Can you say "photo-charter"?

/Mitch

I'm now more bummed than ever. Cruised by the BR&W page and they're closed for the season aka no more excursions. I guess the Santa runs are done as well. And no #60 runs at all this year. I would be surprised if we get anything even next year at the rate things are going. Certainly no photo runs this winter. I've lost my patience with them. Last update to the steam page was in October and even that doesn't have a link to it off the main excursion page any more.

I appreciate how you feel, Jack, but once she's fired, it means keeping her warm all winter. Perhaps BR&W needs to save on those heating costs so she can be run in 2011? A frozen steam locomotive is no good to anybody. Just a thought.

I don't know they'd have to keep the engine fired all year long. I sincerely doubt railroads in the old days kept their steamers fired year-round. The danger of fire in the roundhouse would have been too great. Seen a number of RR excursion videos where they show firing the engine up in the morning before the day's runs. Besides #60 is stored inside for the most part when not run. I don't recall BR&W having facilities inside their engine house to draw a draft through the stack to the outside.

Yes, 60 is stored inside a building which has no heat. Their shop building which does have heat is made of wood and is used to house a diesel - that is a revenue earning asset - so that it doesn't have to idle to keep the water from freezing and/or dumping. What sense does it make to fire up 60 now?

That's too bad as the Holidays seem the best time of the year to actually make a profit running steam - assuming it could be ready in time.

Just what is involved in prepping an engine for Winter? Is it (that) difficult to drain the water from a steam engine? I've heard stories of damage due to freezing but I would uh, assume, that there is a relatively easy way to drain the water from the engine?

/Mitch

In years gone by #60 was run in the winter time for mixed freight excursions so it's been done.

The thing that gets me is the web pages haven't been updated since October as regards the steam operation. Maybe it's the economy, maybe it's something else. I just hope #60 gets to run in 2011 for more than just break-in runs.

Or maybe they just haven't been able to update that part of the website yet. Maybe they're re-designing that part again. Maybe they need to figure out exactly what to put on that part of the webpage.

I have a very strong feeling that #60 will definitely do some good things in 2011, not just break-in runs...

What would be the point of investing the time and money into making a working engine if not to have it work and earn its keep? I'm presuming there is a rational plan at work here. Actually carrying it off is a good sign of credibility and management savvy.

Winterizing a steam locomotive includes a fairly time intensive amount of stripping down, blowing out, and lubing for cold dry layup. Can't say as i blame them for not wanting to go to that effort for lelss than a few good revenue days.

dave

Another reason they may not be firing it up is the simple lack of volunteers to not only run the engine, but be around for the post service tear down. In many ways a diesel on a block heater comes out way ahead. Were it not for the problem of moisture in the saddle and cylinders, one could almost keep a steam engine on a block heater, but I don't know of any examples of this, plus a heater failure would be catastrophic.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

I've heard the North Pole trains were well attended anyway. Would steam draw enough additional passengers to justify its added costs? I'd doubt it. I've heard from people at BRW that there was no significant difference in attendance during years when 60 was in service. Steam exists, by and large, because there are people that want to operate it and do what's necessary to make that happen. There simply is no profit motive for operating a steam locomotive. The delays with regard to 60 are purely because there is a lack of people willing to do what's necessary. I really wonder what the state of railroad preservation would look like if we could just convert all the man hours of railfan complaining into man hours of restoration. Something like Great Britain or better I'd imagine.

We've been through this bit of circular discussion before. Many times.

Steam CAN be a critical draw to the tourist train market. If you are marketing yourself as a "time capsule" or a "trip to the past" (Strasburg, EBT, Sierra, Cumbres & Toltec, etc.), then steam is a critical part of the equation. If you're marketing a scenic ride (Durango & Silverton, Mt. Washington Cog) or transportation (Grand Canyon RR) or a ride experience (a dinner train), not so much, if at all.

Black River & Western doesn't seem to market its runs as either--in fact, I'm not sure what its role is other than a nice "something to do". They've also long had only one steamer rather than a stable, so it's perhaps wise for them to not put all their marketing behind a solitary steamer that may or may not be available. Many other lines are in similar "one steamer" straits--Middletown & Hummelstown, Western Md. Scenic, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc.

Does anyone here ever stop and really read an entire thread?

Gripe, Gripe and more Gripe! If you want to discuss a certain engine...then discuss it. The speculation is a waste of time! You are not discussing BR&W 60 at all.

1st - These railroads, museums and groups that restore all our favorite engines...they are well aware of how time, operation and weather degrade their equipment.

2nd - Your comments borderline on pointing fingers at men and women and saying "Hey Stupid!...What are you doing X, Y or Z?"

3rd - Many popular organizations do not update their websites with any degree of regularity. Let's take TVRM. They do post schedule and special event updates on a regular basis. But look for weekly updates on Southern 630...and you won't find them. It is pretty common knowledge that the engine has now had 2 seperate steam ups...the insulation is going back on...the new roller bearing trucks are installed under the old 4501 tender frame...and the new tender tank is to be installed any day. BUT...you won't find any of that on their website. Goto to Strasburg...and you won't see weekly updates on the 4-6-0's from Long Island RR or Canadian Pacific...but informed people know they are there. Illinois Railroad Museum...they haven't updated their steam page since October 2010 either...but again...work is going on during the weekends to complete the overhaul of Frisco 1630.

So many people talk about - a.)what they think, b.)what they would do IF..., c.)why doesn't such & such or so & so do this that and the other?

It is a waste of time. I recommend that you all just wait for the Spring to thaw it all out. BR&W 60 is going to run again. The BR&W is a small operation. We should be greatful that they have overhauled #60 at all.

Let's support, support, support these organizations as they overhaul their equipment. Let's support, support, support the upstarts and the new operations that decide to restore an engine big or small.

Quit tearing down and instead build up. Thank you Black River & Western for all of the hard work you put in over the last few years as you as overhauled #60. We eagerly await the Spring to see your accomplishments and spread the word about your railroad