No need to get all riled up Mr. Melvin. The other Richard (R.L.M) is a dear friend of mine and has a lot to offer this forum. He's 100% legit and has worked with me on countless steam and railroad related endeavors.

Hope this settles that confusion.




I agree with you Dave. It was my opinion from the beginning that to safely staff a steam-powered passenger train, one would need at LEASt two in the cab of the locomotive at all times, and a separate O.O.S crew member aboard the train conducting (no pun intended) all consist needs.

Don,

Though it's been some time since I've had a word with the local FRA man, I'm not entirely sure FRA puts in place cut-and-dry definitions of job duties based on operating title. I understand it is more of a union position to outline these responsibilities, at least when a union is involved.

From my experience working for one of America's Class-1's, there is no official Federal conductor certification, though there is a carefully crafted Federal program for Engineers. This is rumored to be changing for Conductors though, perhaps with more guidance as to the specific do's and don'ts for this position.

As far as with Steam operators, well that's where Uncle Sam changes the rules up on 'ya. I'll have a browse through my 230 manual tonight - maybe hidden away somewhere is a stipulation for this very instance.

Hopefully a little helpful insight anyhow...

Ha. A tourist railroad of passing acquaintance regularly operated its steam locomotive with an engineer, who also hand fired for himself, and the conductor was often his under-18 grand-daughter. Furthermore, the regular drill at the outer end of the run involved dropping the train past the locomotive, with the engineer/fireman winding on a hand brake to stop the cars. I wonder what the FRA man would have said about that?

My apologies to you, Rich Melvin!
(Gee it seems very weird to say that.)

I am amazed that there is another "Richard Melvin" in the world, and that he also likes railroading. It is indeed a small, small world.

I'll bet I've had my name longer than you have had yours!

Best of luck to you, Rich!

I'd be heartily surprised if the FRA was even involved with this particular operation. Insularity can be a blessing for the pocketbook, but a curse for the safety record.

And Rich, no hard feelings! I'm totally amazed at our commonality too. And you're probably right about the latter, though its lived for thirty-some years on this end :)

Couple of comments. First, in the early days of the Cedar Point railroad, they did run with only one crew member in the cab, who both ran and fired. (Even since they've had two in the cab, if one guy had had a "rough night" and the other crew member was feeling charitable he might let his fireman "rest his eyes" for a trip around and do it all.) Now, the CP&LE has always been considered a "ride" and not a railroad, so the rules are different, but it's possible to do. Second, the above described procedure on getting cars around a locomotive is called a static drop. Up until a few years ago it was an approved procedure on most railroads for freight cars. CSX banned the practice almost three years ago, but as far as I know that was only a company rule change, not a regulatory one. Someone please correct me on that if I'm wrong. I've ridden static drops before. It was one of the first things I did as a trainman trainee ("Ride that tank down to the end of the track and tie it down as a back-stop".) There is some risk to it but not like doing a running switch. Actually, it can be kind of fun. Now, I don't know what the FRA would say about doing it with occupied passenger cars. My guess is that would be frowned upon.

As for there being two Rich Melvins in the U. S. who are railfans, years ago I came to find out there was another one of me in the Baltimore area, who was interested in joining the local live steam club. Didn't happen and I never met him, but my guess would be it's not all that uncommon in a country of over 300 million.

I was told years ago that you need two people in the cab of a steamer just for safety reasons. Not only do you need two sets of eyes on the track, especially at crossings, but what if something happens, such as a broken water glass? One person uses the coal scoop as a shield, while the other shuts the valves above and below. Never had to do it, but thats what I was told-

That would seem like the logical answer now wouldn't it? Thus far, I've found no legislation in the CFR mandating that practice. Must dig deeper!


DC

The lack of a deadman's control should be sufficient reason to require two trained men in the cab of a steamer at all times. My opinion is that the conductor should be in the cars with passengers rather than trying to fire a locomotive while doing his main job.

If you need to skimp on crew, use car hosts to keep an eye on passenger safety and do without trainmen- the conductor can be on the ground handling switching where required.

On a diesel where visibility is an issue (like our S-3) two sets of eyes are required. We use a diesel second man (brakeman training to become an engineer) but you could use a brakeman.

My 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary.

Steve Hunter
RMEO