There are at least a couple of companies that have specially refurbished cabooses that go with their heavy/high/wide hauling cars. The one time I had a rider with a transformer, it was only one person, and he just rode our trailing unit. He was a retired power company employee who knew quite a bit about the piece of equipment he was escorting. To be an escort for those loads, you have to have a great deal of flexibility. They get called for a week or two cross-country trip on a few hour notice, and end up sitting in cheap motels for days at a time waiting for the carrier to decide it's time to move the cargo to the next yard.

If you want to find out what it takes to do a rods off move in freight service, ask one of the Age of Steam guys what it took to move NKP 763 from Roanoke to Morgan Run a couple of years ago.

My guess is that it would take a day or two to get the 3751 back together to operate. You'd need a crane on each end of the trip to remove/reinstall the rods, and an open place, preferably paved, to do it at, and enough room to move the engine back and forth to line up the valve gear properly with the rods. I'm thinking if they planned on leaving California by mid-June that should be long enough to arrive in Rock Island under steam in time.

Problem with a main rods off movement is that it would be at a slow speed due to counterbalance issues by having the rods off. I'm not sure the RR would be eager to do that either.
It's a very long involved move on a very busy railroad which would draw a huge amount of people trackside, all over company property, climbing on everything to get the right photo and make huge demands on manpower.
I don't know what the employment issue is on the BNSF, but if there's a lot of folks furloughed, I think that would rub them the wrong way.
Just putting my two cents worth in the hat.

Trust me, You dont want to know what tug/barge rates are. Usually between 2-6 thousand a day, just for a tug. Not counting a barge charter, or the means of loading and unloading.

Paul (a Tugster)

I know that when CPR 1293 was moved from Steamtown to the OC, it moved at the headend of a regular freight train. A friend of mine photographed it coming out of the tunnel at Gallitzin, PA. So, it is possible to move an operable steam locomotive near-normally in a regular freight train. As I said, there are going to be speed restrictions on it, but it can move faster than restricted speed. They probably should hook up temperature monitors to the bearings, but many contemporary operating mainline steam locomotives already have that equipment installed.

As for drawing a crowd, a dead-in-tow steam locomotive, moving as part of a regular freight train in an unpublicized move is not going to attract a lot of attention. I chased 1293 both ways from Morgan Run to the CVSR in '08, and at times I was the ONLY photographer following the move, and 1293 was live and leading the entire way, both ways. Do it unpublicized, in the middle of the week, and it will go largely unremarked. Do it the way the Ft. Wayne group did the re-break-in run of 765 several years ago, in near total secrecy, and you'll be alone for at least the first day. Moving as part of unscheduled local freights, much of the move is going to happen at night anyway. I just don't see much of an "attractive nuisance" problem with the move. It's going to be a very low-key, non-event. The average person waiting at a grade crossing probably won't even recognize it as a steam locomotive, and in 2010 I don't think I'm exaggerating that, sad to say. If you want to get some idea of how this would work, keep an eye on what happens when 614 moves to Roanoke, if it hasn't already.

I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding furloughed employees.

[quote="Randy Gustafson"]I'm still back to the issue here of how this can be done where it fits in with what BNSF is trying to do and typically does for special moves. Look at the website. See what they are doing.

Charity runs. Special events. Goodwill. If you're going to approach them on moving this thing, what can it do for them? It's going to draw the press, and crowds trackside, how do you make it worth it for them? What events are in communities along the route, coming up, that BNSF and 3751 could highlight?

If they are willing to haul the BNSF executive fleet all the way to Oregon for a Christmas Santa train for military families, that should say something. And that one was gratis - on the house -in exchange for what you have to admit was a VERY nice TV news story, first rate. That exercise was not cheap, or easy.
quote]


There's some good food for thought in Randy's ideas above... I was particularly struck with the Santa train for military families. How about pitching a similar idea, tying Mr Rowland's Yellow Ribbon concept to this.. Also fits in timeline wise with tying something to a July 4th timeframe.

July 4th, Summertime, honoring the military and their service, the Santa Fe/BNSF, and a significant steam locomotive operation.. seems like a nice package to build a lot of positive public relations off of.

[quote="Nova55"
Trust me, You dont want to know what tug/barge rates are. Usually between 2-6 thousand a day, just for a tug. Not counting a barge charter, or the means of loading and unloading.

Paul (a Tugster)[/quote]

$6000 a day sounds about right for a river tug. I didn't know what it might be for ocean-going. Of course, up this way it would be 1/15 that (one barge out of the consist) and on the LMR it would be one out of who knows how many in those great big fleets. We do see a lot of large equipment go by here.

Those are some good ideas about a Fourth of July tie-in.

Something else I just thought of: the more she moves cold, the better it is for her boiler days. Moving her hot and taking a long time about it takes a lot out of her service days. If it isn't more than a day or two and a crane rental, if need be, on each end to remount the rods, that's hardly insurmountable. As far as restricted speed goes, she could ride slow freights, coal trains and what have you. She'd still need her tool car and parts in case of breakdown and at least a couple of retired or out of work mechanics with time to ride along. Here's another question: if she did a run cold and drop off here and there schedule, is there any possibility of stopping for public display, and how many people in the general public would mind that she was cold and rods off?

Most Class 1 railroads and many regionals do not want the hassel of moving steam/excursion trains on their tracks. These movements are a strong pull for the public to come trackside and many members of the public are completely ignorant of the safety hazards of being around railroads. The drain on personnel to handle these moves safely and protect the public is tremendous and can be a unnecssary distraction to normal operations. Handling equipment which requires slower speed and special attention particularly by several trains is nothing but an operations nightmare.

Unless the desire and direction to handle such moves comes from the executive department, the possibilites for current and future permissions are pretty going to be pretty dim.

In the 1960-70s there was a crop of young railroaders who as closet "railfans", moved up the ladder to executive levels in various railroads and who later in their careers were instrumental in promoting steam excursions. Many of those leaders are now either retired or deceased and the remaining ones are tired of trying to handle them. I don't see a future crop of railfan managers like I did years ago. From my several years in the industry, I believe the future for most if not all excursion operations will be less not more mainline and increasing use of a few shortline (depending on liability costs) and more museum operations. There simply is not enough people, track or desire to handle excursion operations on the mainline whether they move in revenue service or dead in tow.

Barry

Indeed, I see very little steam interest in the current generation of railroad managers, and the gap between the interests of our national railroad historical groups and those of modern railroad management has grown to an chasm. Some time ago one of the national historical groups discussed an outreach effort directed towards modern railroad management, in an effort to address this problem. I was asked to hand carry brochures from that group to the CMO's of several major railroads, which I did. The universal reaction to the brochure was a combination of confusion and amusement at the brochure illustrations, which were almost entirely steam locomotives, to the extent that on first viewing the reader might wonder if there is anything else in railroading. Beyond that the CMO's all voiced the opinion that with increased security concerns and the complications that excursion operations caused on the railroad, there was not a very bright future for running major excursions. But we have all talked about this issue before, at great length, and the only thing that really changes is the date of the discussion.

This situation in general seems to be steering the preservation industry to the need to combine their efforts toward obtaining use or ownership of a small fleet of heavy duty flat cars or specialty freight cars that could be leased out between the members for the transportation of equipment. That combined with some well engineered plans for partial disassembly of equipment for shipment in order to distribute the size and weight among several vehicles, may be the best hope for any affordable long distance movement of very heavy preserved equipment in the future.

PC

We need to keep trying. The Brits have managed to overcome this problem when at one time,nearly all steam except for the Flying Scotsman was banned from the mainlines of Britain. I've been on both sides of the street...I know the Class Ones have a job to do...make money for their shareholders. We have a job to do as well..working with the Class Ones to make our equipment available to them,and being able to operate our equipment in such a manner to be able to put back into the equipment and the locomotive, as well as provide education to the railroad management whom we operate over. Situations such as what the 3751 finds herself in provides us with an opportunity to find a solution that is workable for all parties involved. I have no knowledge of what might be taking place between the SBRHS,Amtrak,and the BNSF; therefore I am not in a position to speak for them. Should any of then be reading this board,I would like to tell them this:

1. To the SBRHS: The absolute ideal might not be possible. Decide amonst yourselves if the trip to Rock Island and back is worth doing,and if you have to make it out there earlier than you planned,there is a world of help out there for the asking,financially and physically.

2. To the BNSF: A whole hearted thank you for even considering the operation,and for suspending the operation when you feel your own traffic is going to interfere with the operation of this locomotive. I humbly ask you to strongly consider all alternatives to get her out there and back with the least amout of interference to your traffic. You have one of the world's mightiest 4-8-4's at your disposal, conceived by ATSF, birthed at Baldwin, and proven in 30 years of regular service and 20 years of excursion service. The railroad which had the audacity and the confidence to operate these engines more than 1700 miles without change and run them better than 90 miles per hour, even topping 100 on many occasions, most certainly has the same confidence to find a way to showcase a moving example of where they have been,and where they are going.

3. To Amtrak: First, a thank you for all the steam excursions that have operated under your umbrella. Now comes the hard part. The timetable is not what it once was. Working with the BNSF and SBRHS you can find a way to make things happen which will be a benefit for all of you.

In closing,I would like to say that ,as a railroader,I have seen railroaders do some incredible things,and I have been a part of some of them. We've pulled together through fires,floods,blizzards, and many of a thousand things that happen on a railroad,both good and not so good. It's time to pull together for the good and find a way to make this trip happen. I know all of you working together can find a solution. Everybody is pulling for you. Lock yourselves in a room and hammer something out. All who love steam are counting on it.

VERY,VERY well said Txhighballer.

What makes your thoughts particularly valuable and on point is that they come from someone who has spent time in the trenches...where the real action lives!!

Thanks for saying it so well.

Best to all for a healthy, steam rich 2011.

Ross Rowland

Since 3751 can't come, maybe NKP 587 (if it's finished, and can actually get onto the mainline) and/or Southern 401. Just some ideas to throw around.

There is no mention of 3751 not making the trip to Rock Island. Yes, the excursion (from LA to Rock Island) has been suspended, but the move of the engine has not been cancelled. Alternatives are currently being discussed.

Folks,

I received two separate "rumor mill" communications in my e-mail box this morning from reasonably reliable sources, passing on info from parties supposedly involved in either 3751 and/or the Train Festival.

Since negotiations are still ongoing and they differ slightly in details, I'm not going to repost the information directly, but what I will say is:

1) they're supposedly discussing ideas we haven't even thought of yet on this forum (no, not an airplane carrier, about the only thing left we haven't suggested!), and

2) IF things transpire the way matters are being rumored as proposed, it would end up being a MAJOR change for either 3751's long-term prospects, "BNSF steam" in general, or both.

One hint I will suggest: Again, IF things happen as rumored, you might want to stake out your photo spots on Raton Pass now........... you know, just in case.

Stay tuned, This could get MOST interesting.......
[pulls up chair and popcorn....]

Illinois Railway museum is moving a Silver Poney Dome car right now and guess what, BNSF and associated carriers decided to "gift" the move of the car, this was practically after it was loaded on the flatbed on the move, so surprise surprise. That makes me like the chances the engine will get out.