I had originally posted this as a follow up to another subject but I think it would be better on its own.

Are there any regulations regarding lead paint removal from objects located outdoors? I know when I was involved in a turntable sandblasting project that one contractor proposed a chemical peal, while the contractor who actually performed the sandblasting set up a negative air pressure tent to contain all of the dust. But what about museum volunteers with needlescales? What, if any, precautions do they have to take?

I have searched a fair amount on-line but for the most part only found information regarding residential lead paint regulations. It appears there have been recent changes to codes but I can't find anything specific.

Roger

I had discussions about this several years ago. Now since things change, that may be old news but at the time we were told that as long as the particles were collected after the scraping or needlescaling process, you were ok as long as you wore respirators. So cover the ground with a good heavy plastic tarp and have at it. That is if the rules haven't chnaged since my instruction.

Now sandblasting is another story since it puts dust into the air.

Later!
Mr. Ed

I believe you will find some areas will be far more strict (fanatical?) than others.

For example (looking at the USA from outside), some states such as Massachusetts may have far more state or local restrictions than some of the western states where personal freedom is more fiercely defended.

Removal of the paint probably won't be an issue, but where and how it can be done, by whom, and what level of personal and environmental protection will be. In some areas encapsulation may be preferred even at the expense of a long- lasting, non- hazardous finish.

I defer to those more in touch with the situation, however!

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

3 years ago, Golden Gate RR Museum stripped paint off the exterior of 1914/1940 lounge car Southern Pacific 2979 http://ggrm.org/Collection_view.aspx?id=8 with pneumatic needle scalers. Paint chips were caught on a tarp, and swept up or vacuumed up at the end of each workday. This was done outdoors with good natural ventilation.

This method is much slower than sandblasting. The big advantage is minimal hazmat disposal costs. The entire 75' carbody generated less than one 55 gallon drum of (lead-based) paint chips, which cost $250/drum to dispose of.

The paint comes off in chips, not fine dust, so decent-quality dust masks (3M brand, with exhaust valve to minimize fogging of safety goggles, and two rubber straps to hold them tightly to your face) from the welding-supply store were used.

You'll need a good supply of needle guns and replacement parts (needles, springs, etc). The cheaper guns aren't worth repairing. We standardized on Ingersoll-Rand model 182. In-line oilers to continuously lubricate the guns with air-tool oil will pay for themselves in reduced repair costs.

Next time we'll purchase special vibration-absorbtion gloves (McMaster-Carr stocks them) for the needle-scaling crew. You'll find you'll want them when using needle guns for a whole day at a time.

- Doug Debs

Again, it depends on what your state regulations are, but there are some things you need to know prior to removing lead coating.

How much are you going to remove? What is your preferred method? What is the current coating condition? Does it make sense to remove all of the old coating? What kind of surface do you desire for the finished product prior to application of new coatings (generally this is answered by the specs for the new coating and the appearance you want to achieve)?

Generally, when dealing with restorations of big, steel railroady things, grit blasting yields the most desirable results. That being said, the most important factor for the waste is the leachability of the lead in the coating you are removing.

Just because there is lead present doesn't mean you can't just blast it and leave the waste on the ground, as the amount of lead that actually leaches into the soil is the big environmental determing factor for the gummit agencies. There is also the potential application of air quality standards during the actual removal process that may have to be dealt with depending on location. That being said, there are products that you can apply to the coating before removal that bond with the lead and virtually eliminate the leachablity. There are also special additives to blasting media that in essence do the same thing.

Insofar as worker safety and training requirements, that's another ball of wax altogether. My father is an industrial coatings contractor and has done quite a bit of lead abatement on steel structures. You can PM me off board and I'll be happy to get the details of your particular project and forward it on to him for some advice. He has been a friend to several rail preservation projects thanks to the influence of his eldest son's passions...

Best,
Mike

Interesting. I know of an old LIRR caboose, mostly intact, but the interior is covered with blistered, split, curling flakes of the original paint. Owing to the hack's age, I'm quite certain some of the paint is lead based. Removal would entail use of chemical strippers, softeners, and scrapers. First guess would be use of gloves and respirators, ventilation, and collection of all the glop for hazardous waste disposal.
Any other thoughts on this?

Consider the heat gun or heat plate. Heat softens the paint - works even better on multiple layers - which you then scrape off. When the scrapings cool, they harden into something akin to potato chips made of paint, which can be easily swept up and bagged. Get a good heat gun, the little home use ones won't last and will frustrate until they quit.

dave

However, heat guns also produce an inhalation hazard with the fumes emanating from the paint being heated, which a face mask won't necessarily deal with. This is hardly a problem for a small job like a piece of furniture or a door frame, but if one person tries stripping an entire railroad car or train, well.........

EVERY paint removal method produces an inhalation hazard. Chemical strippers, blasting with any usual suspect media, needle scaling - all require breathing protection and a supply of good clean breathable air. Heat and scrape avoids the particulate stuff for the most part better than any of the others except chemical, is much easier to clean up and no worse (if not better) in terms of vapors than chemical, and vapor issues are easily dealt with by only working in a well ventilated area. The most likely side effect from it is an unintentional minor burn from not being careful what part of the heat gun or plate you grab.

Few people are more prone to accidents than I am, and it is my method of choice, especially for woodwork.

dave

Has anyone ever tried a water jet to blast paint away? It uses 30,000 lbs of water pressure. I will be stripping a locomotive in the spring and am looking into using this method but I cannot find any information on where to obtain this piece of equipment.

This method was used by Juniata Terminal Co during the restoration of the E8's. See this link to see the process in action.

http://www.prrths.com/E8s/Phila_PRR5711_04_11_01.htm

We used water jet blasting to clean the paint off of our 1850s water tank. It worked very well. We put on a really heavy coat of primer and it still looks good, two years later. Once we get it moved to it's permanent pad, it will be painted.

Later!
Mr. Ed

I highly recommend the small book "How to Paint Your Boat", written by paint chemist Nigel Clegg, copyright 1997, 2006. Everything [except antifouling paint] applies 100% to railroad cars & locos as well. It covers how the major changes in paint and pigment chemistry (due to environmental regulations and better paint chemistry) have affected paints in the past 20+ years.

You can read this online at http://books.google.com/books?id=vCs_7CYJ97UC&printsec=frontcover&dq=How+to+Paint+Your+Boat&source=bl&ots=wVKYXN3xlK&sig=VsTRWZCvTkES9iXaMc7i5CgMtTM&hl=en&ei=6eUtTcOUI4rmsQOWwaXXBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false.

I find the actual book easier to read. Used copies are available for less than $5 at http://www.abebooks.com: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Clegg&sts=t&tn=How+to+Paint+Your+Boat&x=0&y=0

- Doug Debs

Do you happen to know where you gained access to this piece of equipment? Did you rent it? It looked as if it works really well. Thanks!

Don't be so certain. This is an urban legend: "All old paint is leaded". Untrue. Lots of old paint didn't use lead. It was used either as a prime base (red/white lead) and it was not the only primer in use... or as a pigment, but only in certain colors. So what's actually falling off? Lead test kits are not that expensive. Either you have lead, or you don't.

There is a great deal of hysteria and misinformation in this area. Tread with care and insist on reason-based thinking.

An emotional reaction is "EXORCIZE THE DEMON! Remove it all, break out the blaster!" Check your local regulations but they won't call for that. It's a waste of valuable abatement time, and it's not practicable anyway because lead will remain under every seam, corner and torqued bolt.

Further, it demolishes historic fabric. The car's paint tells a rich story. We will yet see affordable technologies that allow for non-destructive scanning of layers of paint. Careful paint study has revealed that the long-presumed road number of a unit was wrong.

The fastest way anyway will most likely be to stabilize it in-situ. Remove the chips and stop future chipping. The paint man knows how to do that - follow his best practices. As a bonus you get a fresh paint job for the newsletter.

Since the primer will be doing the heavy lifting, go first rate. The 2-pack epoxies are the best primers on the market and can be topcoated with anything. Some go on with brush/roller, which annuls the need for the spray man's bunny suit.



More a function of ventilation. The guy outside on the railroad car may actually be in better shape than the guy doing the coffee table in his basement shop.


Definitely. It hits all the basics of paint. Boaters have the same issues we do - wood or steel construction, a wide variety of paints in use, aged equipment. High standards for yachts, plus an absolutely brutal environment with twice the sun, all manner of abrasion, plus salt. You want to test paint quality: test on a boat. I wonder how Rustoleum holds up, lol!