See the Sunday, June 30, 2002, issue of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette for an article by Tom Gibb on the status of the East Broad Top Railroad. The article puts onto the table all of the current critical issues for the EBT, but not without a certain amount of posturing by EBT owner Joseph Kovalchick that does not always square with the facts.

You can find the newspaper's site at: www.post-gazette.com.


http://www.post-gazette.com/
ebt4evr@aol.com

From what I read the only fact I can glean is that the Kovalchik's don't believe they were offered what they think the railroad is worth. I wish they had taken the deal, but it is THEIR property.

See the Sunday, June 30, 2002, issue of the
> Pittsburgh Post-Gazette for an article by
> Tom Gibb on the status of the East Broad Top
> Railroad. The article puts onto the table
> all of the current critical issues for the
> EBT, but not without a certain amount of
> posturing by EBT owner Joseph Kovalchick
> that does not always square with the facts.

> You can find the newspaper's site at:
> www.post-gazette.com.


acp19809@yahoo.com

It is their property, but if he wants that much for the whole thing imagine what will happen if they shut down and sell a piece at a time. Six engines end up God knows where, none will operate again. The rest will be scattered, scrapped, or left to rot. A tragedy in the making if their ever was one. I always hear that all these rich and famous people are railfans, but we never hear from any of them in situations like this. So ATTENTION: Wealthy Railfans- Complete narrow gauge steam railroad. Historic buildings and equiptment in place. Some work needed but well worth the effort. A once in a lifetime chance to write your name into the pages of railroad history. In my personal opinion an offer of five million dollars would seal the deal. Don't miss out on this one.

Heck, if Kovalchick wants $10M for the EBT, let's get the money together and get it. If that's what it takes to save the EBT (even if the owner wants lots of $) it is certainly a priceless treasure worth what he wants for it. Time to call Bill Gates (who is rumored to be a rail buff).

> It is their property, but if he wants that
> much for the whole thing imagine what will
> happen if they shut down and sell a piece at
> a time. Six engines end up God knows where,
> none will operate again. The rest will be
> scattered, scrapped, or left to rot. A
> tragedy in the making if their ever was one.
> I always hear that all these rich and famous
> people are railfans, but we never hear from
> any of them in situations like this. So
> ATTENTION: Wealthy Railfans- Complete narrow
> gauge steam railroad. Historic buildings and
> equiptment in place. Some work needed but
> well worth the effort. A once in a lifetime
> chance to write your name into the pages of
> railroad history. In my personal opinion an
> offer of five million dollars would seal the
> deal. Don't miss out on this one.

> Heck, if Kovalchick wants $10M for the EBT,
> let's get the money together and get it. If
> that's what it takes to save the EBT (even
> if the owner wants lots of $) it is
> certainly a priceless treasure worth what he
> wants for it. Time to call Bill Gates (who
> is rumored to be a rail buff).

It seems the problem is that Mr. K always wants twice what is offered at any given time for the EBT. If you offer $2.5M, he demands $5.0M. If $5.0M is offered, the price goes up tp $10.0M

> Heck, if Kovalchick wants $10M for the EBT,
> let's get the money together and get it. If
> that's what it takes to save the EBT (even
> if the owner wants lots of $) it is
> certainly a priceless treasure worth what he
> wants for it. Time to call Bill Gates (who
> is rumored to be a rail buff).

Like others of his ilk, the main thing that Bill Gates is a fan of is Bill Gates. Railroad Preservation doesn't have a broad enough "ego appeal".(rich nerd buys own sports team= cover of Sports Illustrated, Time, NewsWeek, ect ad infinitum; rich nerd buys one of the most significant historic transportation-industrial properties in the US= cover of Trains)
The rich and famous are mainly interested in being rich and famous, and appearing politically correct. They'll donate to save the rain forest and any possible cannibals that live there "in harmony with nature" (unless, of course, you're lunch), but danged if they will give a penny to save any part of America's industrial heritage. Railroads and coal ain't sexy enough.

wealth is wasted on the rich.

I just had the chance to visit for the first time. What I found was both wonderful and very troubling. I don't mean to dump cold water on anyone, but...

The problem is much deeper than just the high price which the Kovalchik's want, how ever undefined.

Assuming some one was to step forward with an amount of money sufficient to purchase the property and "save it" this would only be the beginning. Once it is "safe" then it will need to be preserved. It's a 40 some mile railroad, only 5 miles or so is used as a tourist line. The rest of the line is more of a memory of a railroad, than a railroad. The ties are a mulch, and the rail is only held in gauge by habit. The shops while complete, are only one good snow storm away from falling down.

I can't speak for the condition of the locomotives, but the passenger cars are at best old, and at worst starting to sag in all the wrong places, and rot in many of the others.

The collection of freight cars, mostly hoppers, with a few boxcars mixed in, split between Mt Union and Rockhill are fast becoming one with the earth from which they came. I restore wooden cars, but these are in much worse condition than most of what I start with, some of which have been bout of service (and without maintenance for 40 or more years.

The site is in a very rural portion of Pennsylvania. The nearest motel is 15 miles away, and most visitors chose motels even further from the active railroad and shops. Attracting visitors will be a problem, and as a result it would be difficult to justify based on tourist visits.

Consider the problems so many groups have completing a single restoration, be it a locomotive, a car, or a station. Now multiply the effort over the 20+ buildings 6 locomotives, 5 or 6 passenger cars (including the caboose) and maybe only 50 of the several hundred freight cars. The budget for this could exceed what was spent at Steamtown. This site would require a concept and a wallet larger than any ever seen in railroad preservation before.

On the plus side this is a complete site. And it has been recognized by many outside the railroad preservation community. There is a great, active friends organization in place. (congratulations on the grant for the wheels for combine 16, and all of us need to send them money to save the tow cars in Colorado) ButÂ… this is one very large puppy.

Randy Hees



http://spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

Even with all the problems and over all the years, New Mexico and Colorado stepped up to save the C&TSR and gave us all what could be the best, one day, laid back railroad excursion opportunity.

The issue here is the fact that it is Mr. K's property. Thankfully there are no "taste" police in South Central PA to tamper with his property rights. He had the foresight to purchase it. He has allowed us to enjoy it for almost 50 years. He is entitled to set the asking price.

To berate the man, is unfair. Would you want someone to tell you what your property is worth?. There is just too much abuse of emminent domain condemnations and zoning over-regulation in this country..

This is an example of a classic struggle between those who own and those would want to tell people who own what to do with what they own.

Hopefully reason will prevail and some rational resolution will take place.


v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net

> Hopefully reason will prevail and some
> rational resolution will take place.

Unfortunately, as pointed out by others, it's impossible to play a game when one of the players keeps moving the goalposts.

The only thing I see working is someone that the K. family trusts (which might not exist) sitting down with them, saying "name the price", and then whipping out the checkbook or suitcase of cash on the spot and having a deed signed over that minute.

Legend has it that something like this has already happened, and the party in question was shown the door.


lner4472@bcpl.net

I have had all of the above opinions over time, and now am content to have the railroad stay in its private hands, and even operate as a common carrier. But there has to be a certain stability needed for the railroad to recieve funds from various sources geared towards the no-profit. Could the railroad charter be modified to a non-profit 501-3c organization? Could the railroad's holding company establish its own non-profit foundation (or at least, one with a management that was friendly to the EBT railroad company) to which to sell the assets - and then contract back to itself to lease the line for for-profit operations?
Perhaps the only way the K family would be interested in this idea was if they let go of the notion that this land (and the railroad on it) will bring in a jackpot of money, and instead consider themselves to be wealthy with the fortunate opportunity to be stewards of our future. In my mind, only they can create a wonderful historic and nature park, a public treasure and the jewel of east-central PA. Or not.

Now there's an idea.....If the Kovalchik (sp?) family has an accountant they can trust, this course of action might be more lucrative than breaking up the property piecemeal. However, how can one get a property assessment to take historic provenenance into account?

> Could the railroad charter be modified to a
> non-profit 501-3c organization? Could the
> railroad's holding company establish its own
> non-profit foundation (or at least, one with
> a management that was friendly to the EBT
> railroad company) to which to sell the
> assets - and then contract back to itself to
> lease the line for for-profit operations?

I don't think a foundation can do this, methinks the IRS would look very askance upon such a move. The Towe Ford automobile collection in Deer Lodge, Montana was nearly broken up completely when the IRS asserted that the museum was a tax shelter/dodge.

> Perhaps the only way the K family would be
> interested in this idea was if they let go
> of the notion that this land (and the
> railroad on it) will bring in a jackpot of
> money,

The Kovalchik family probably hears a lot about people making money on Ebay, why not them? Frankly though, even if broken up and sold piecemeal, the property would be worth maybe 1.5 million tops. The engines and tools might fetch the best prices, while rolling stock, buildings, and right of way (which would then be intrusions into the other 20,000 non-railroad acres) would bring much less. The commission fees an auctioneer would demand means that the actual value of the property is probably less than has been offered.

and instead consider themselves to be
> wealthy with the fortunate opportunity to be
> stewards of our future. In my mind, only
> they can create a wonderful historic and
> nature park, a public treasure and the jewel
> of east-central PA. Or not.

They would certainly have the most to gain from the EBT's stability and growth, but they may be tired of dealing with the property and just want out, on their terms.

In the mean time, the most practical thing to do would be to support the FEBT, as they seem to have the best working relationship with the EBT and possibly the best chance to do something.



mikefrommontana@juno.com

The following sentence in the newspaper article has made me question whether or not there is more than meets the eye in the EBT debacle:

“But feeding the EBT enough to keep it going bleeds money from the sale of timber, coal and real estate in an estimated 20,000 acres that Nick Kovalchick bought with the railroad.”

What is the extent of the coal and timber reserves owned by the Kovalchick’s along the EBT? Could it be that the younger Kovalchick’s (without being hindered by sentiments for history) would like the EBT out of the way so that they can clear-cut and strip-mine their holdings in the Aughwick valley – and perhaps standard-gauge a portion of the EBT for use as a spur for the mine. Depending on the extent of the reserves, this would yield far more dollars than anything anybody would ever consider paying for the EBT.

This is, of course, pure speculation – but it does give a plausable reason as to why the Kovalchick’s have been uncompromising in their negotiations.

Article on the EBT in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
rrhistorian@hotmail.com

I am sure the real estate, mining and timber assets could be spun off into a separate company - just like BN, Santa Fe, and UP have done over the last several years.

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@eldcps.org

Good point, but even if it were true, why sacrifice the rest of the railroad that wouldn't necessarily be part of the timber/coal reserves? At the very least they could make some kind of profit by selling the Orbisonia shops and trackage to Mount Union for preservation.

My $.02 on all of this is yes, the railroad belongs to the Kovalchick family and they have the right to do whatever they want with it. However, IMHO there are just some instances when the object(s), property, item, etc. in question transcends our god-given right of private ownership. In this case, the EBT fits the bill. The Kovalchicks need to think of themselves not merely as owners, but stewards and caretakers for something that's truly unique and deserving of all efforts to preserve and protect for the foreseeable future. And even though I respect the fact that the Kovalchicks were the only the reason the EBT's was saved from the cutting torch and continues to exist to this day, the reality is that it is dying a slow death for reasons not fully made public to us.

In the same breath, I'm not advocating seizing public property under the guise of "eminent domain." However, it seems like at this point something drastic has to take place as the battle against mother nature and the elements is gradually being lost. With the state of Pennsylvania facing a record setting deficit, a slowed national economy and a Federal government that is slashing funding for preservation left and right, it is not the best climate to be looking for more money to save the EBT. I have to believe that the state of PA and the Southwestern Pennsylvania Heritage Preservation Commission have done everything in their power to try and make the Kovalchicks a reasonable offer taking into consideration the additional $30-$40 million dollars? it will probably take to fully rehabilitate the line (restoration proposal link: http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/Studies/fsa.html).

What other options are left? The chances of a white knight like Bill Gates rescuing the EBT are probably nil. However even though it sounds crazy, has the Bill & Milenda Gates Foundation been approached? (they gave away over $380 million to special projects last year) How about other charitable foundations: Annenberg, Pew Charitable Trust, Cassett, etc.? Can we can get a Predator spy drone plane to fly over the Kovalchick's 4th of July picnic to eavesdrop in on the converstion at the grown-ups table?

> What is the extent of the coal and timber
> reserves owned by the KovalchickÂ’s along the
> EBT? Could it be that the younger
> KovalchickÂ’s (without being hindered by
> sentiments for history) would like the EBT
> out of the way so that they can clear-cut
> and strip-mine their holdings in the
> Aughwick valley – and perhaps standard-gauge
> a portion of the EBT for use as a spur for
> the mine. Depending on the extent of the
> reserves, this would yield far more dollars
> than anything anybody would ever consider
> paying for the EBT.

My (admittedly gossipy) understandings, NOT corroborated by anyone with accounting information on the Company:

*There are still some coal holdings out in the hills around Robertsdale, etc. For quite a while, EBT locos were burning mine-run coal dumped straight from trucks from these mines/strips. I believe that the steam experts that have been guardian angels to the Mikados and kept them from falling apart or worse in the past few years have somehow convinced the owners to switch over to better coal for the sale of the locos.

*After forty years of robbing Peter to pay Paul, there really is little left to "cannibalize" from the company holdings, I am told. The remaining coal, like much coal in Pennsylvania, is currently mostly uneconomical to dig out, and some of the timber and land is definitely low quality.

Thus, I think I can say that anybody hoping to hold on to that particular railroad and its rights for future economic riches and largess in coal and timber transportation is only kidding themselves. But it's still a free country.



lner4472@bcpl.net