I would like to post some scans of old photos of mine that I think might be of interest to many. Where should I post them? I would rather pick the "right" photo site once and be done with it.

Not that I think my photos are valuable classics, but are there any precautions I should take to keep my photos from appearing in the local bookstore with the credit "anonymous".

As webmaster for a couple of organizations I can assure you from direct experience that anything you post on the internet will be stolen, your credits removed, and it will appear on sites you never heard of or visited, probably credited to others. If it is posted in high resolution you can also be assured that you will eventually run into somebody you never heard of, selling disks of your photos on eBay or at train shows. The only way to discourage this is to keep images for internet use very small and embed your credit line right into the photo area in a location where it cannot be easily cropped out. That won't stop it from being stolen, it just makes the thief work harder to make it usable.

The stealing that goes on in this hobby is just an unfortunate fact of life and extends to journalism as well as photography. There are some coffee table books out there that have enormous blocks of text published as "quotes" that were lifted from magazine articles without the publishers or original authors permission. It is a convenient way for untalented people to make money off of the work of others, they know that with the cost and complexity of the legal system there will be no consequences.

Sorry to have to be so blunt about it, but the internet is a free theft zone.

PC

As far as hosting sites are concerned, we have been very pleased with Fotki. It's cheap, reliable, pretty secure, and is not some obscure railfan site that the general public is unlikely to find:

http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/

There is an option to allow/ not allow file copying which will discourage much of the image copying. Of course, there is nothing you can do to prevent the "page info/media/save as" thing, or screen print and various image capture programs except to put a nice big watermark on each image, in a spot where it can't easily be cropped out.

Should you wish to earn a bit of revenue from sale of prints, mugs, etc that is an option too, and custom prices can be set. We have this function turned off.

The more effort required to steal an image, the less likely anybody will bother. Of course, those needing an image for modelling or research purposes won't be too troubled by the watermark, and anybody with a legitimate need for a clean copy would contact you anyway.

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

Brother Cook is correct in that you have to ASSUME that any image posted online will multiply like jackrabbits and spread to corners of the globe that you never dreamed possible. If you doubt me, just try to stick up a photo of a semi-nude or nude female of your acquaintance online or by cell phone and see what happens. Especially if she's attractive.

Here's one example of a whole bunch of "stolen photography" on a Belgian blog: http://blog.seniorennet.be/jasmijn2/arc ... ?ID=774018

However, I suggest that one be both cynical and practical about the photos in question. Something on the order of a kazillion photos are uploaded to the Web daily, and only a select few--O. Winston Link and above--are ever likely to earn ANY commercial or artistic recognition, let alone financial remuneration.

In today's world, David P. Morgan, Jim Boyd, Mike Schafer, et al are no longer the commercial arbiters of which rail photographers gets noticed/paid for and which aren't. There are photographers setting themselves up as the next Lamb, Shaughnessy, Benson, Patrick, etc. without some printing press in the way. Look at a site like the hidden-until-recently John Dziobko's Godfather Rails:
http://www.godfatherrails.com/home/home.asp

If we insist upon holding to a profit motive for every photograph, we run the risk of being like the well-preserved museum that caters mostly to the members and not the public: eventually, nobody gives a darn about what you're saving.


You want to become the piracy police? www.tineye.com

Alexander, you have really got my curiosity piqued with your reference to female acquaintances, but I appreciate everyone's comments. I don't have any photos in the same class as GodFatherRails, etc. and there is definitely a tradeoff between greed and distribution. Thanks!

Well stated.

From what I've discovered in posting many images on line was that the ones stolen (at least that I know of) were used in ways that did not trouble me and perhaps extended the hobby to others. If someone is actually selling my images, chances are they are selling to an audience that I would not have had access to AND, more importantly, they run the risk of being sued in which case I have the original and higher resolution images and in the long run, I suppose some consequent profit from their theft. On the other hand, I have had offers for rights to use images posted that I otherwise would not have had.

Just post low res - say under a megabyte at 1000 X 683 at 72 dpi (or smaller).

Railpictures.net - is not bad if you don't mind being judged at times in ways at times
mystifying. The site has a very large and direct international audience. They also have a watermarking feature.

FLICKR seems popular but I have yet to try them out. If I recall correctly, you can sell images from that site, as well as SMUGMUG.

At times, I embed my initials in the image using a color that is similar to the background should the need of proof ever arise.

/Mitch

The best thing that can possibly happen to your photo collection is for you to publish and distribute it widely. Based on what I know in the industry I think Flickr is the best in balance. Smugmug is too commercial. Picasa is very easy to use, and free, but it's one of those ad-hoc products Google threw together and I have no faith they won't just up and shut it down one day. No revenue model I can see.

Alexander is exactly right. How many railfan photo collectors do we know who died, and then their next of kin just dumped everything into a dumpster? Or almost as bad, donated it to a railway museum which is totally unequipped to actually do anything useful with it, the collection sits in boxes gathering mold. Bet those railfans thought they were gonna make a lot of money with them, or write the Great American Railroad coffee-table book... and never found the time.

Or the collection magically "dispersed" after the famous photographer lived out his final years in near total obscurity in a nursing home.

Celebrity status in this hobby plus $5 will buy a cup of coffee in some places.

PC

Actually Picasa, being supported by a large company is likely very stable and is more than "ad hoc". It is very integraded with other non-google programs. Also the free editing possibilities using Picnik without leaving the album is very handy. Correct exposure, put text and borders, change size, sharpen and many more. As far as I know it is one of the few that give you this many free editing tools within the program. I don't think many know all the hidden features that are there (and this is on the version where you don't have to install the Picassa application).

I've been thinking a lot about this sort of thing lately for a couple of reasons. First, I recently moved into an apartment that while of a good size, does have limits on how much I can keep long-term. Second, I've been helping organize things for the 75th Anniversary of the Akron Railroad Club in April (anyone who's interested, the banquet will be April 23rd, and Trains editor Jim Wrinn will be the featured speaker).

In going through my back issues of the club bulletin from around 40 years or so ago, I have been reminded of some of the great work of first and second generation photographers I was able to see in my youth, that have disappeared for one reason or another. Some of it has surly been lost for all-time, and some of it is tied up with relatives who either don't know what to do with it, or are reluctant to do anything for fear of getting ripped off. Those early photographers, like Emery Gulash, who sold the rights to their images on their terms, will probably be the ones we remember.

I think there may be an evolving consensus among serious preservationists in the hobby that we need some non-profit way for collectors and photographers who see themselves as guardians of our history to see that their collections are rationally preserved and made available to anyone seriously interested in using those resources for research, publication and display. Most general interest historical societies and university archives are probably not suited for this purpose. Even if there is currently someone connected with those institutions who values railroad oriented collections, there is no guarantee that down the road that institution will continue to keep and value those collections, and they might be disposed of in the trash, rather than deaccessioned to another responsible party.

The other issue is that those few credible institutions in this country who do safeguard railroad collections are so scattered that often collections end up in places that do not make any geographic sense. For instance, Bob Richardson's photographs of railroads in Northeast Ohio are housed at the DeGolyer Library in Texas, and the Lima Locomotive Works collection is in California. This makes it hard for historians living near the original locations dealing with those collections to make use of them for research and publication. There is also a degree of academic snobbery when it comes to the availability of the material in a university archive. In some instances, potential authors and amateur historians are denied access to needed material because they are not "professional" historians with graduate degrees. These concerns need to be addressed.

I think we need a network of smaller, regionally oriented railroad libraries and archives, connected with railroad oriented museums that OWN their own facilities. Said archives probably should be incorporated separately from the museums, so that in the event the museum fails, the library collection does not become part of the bankruptcy estate that gets sold off to satisfy creditors. If we have a series of library/archives like this, then photographers/collectors and their families could donate the life's work of those who went to the time, effort and expense to make those images and collect artifacts, with confidence that their work will be valued, preserved and shared with those who care long into the future.

Paul, an archive similar to what you described was just established here in the Seattle area last year.

http://pnrarchive.org/default.aspx

Paul
Seattle, WA

Thank you for the link. This is just about exactly what I have in mind for NE Ohio. Paul