What about the C&O Historical Society. Surely a coach like this would be a perfect acquisition for a group sauch as this.

Wes

To summarize: the car was slated to be moved on its own trucks which passed all inspections. Because a similar car (similar by having the same Non-rotating End-cap bearings) caused a CSX train to set it off (said bearings not properly serviced), a moratorium was placed upon all cars with NREC bearings, hence the car remaining at Gold Coast. Repeated requests were made to move the car (all other connecting roads were on board), but no move was approved out of GCM. The current owner needs the higher-rated trucks for his PV and is willing to sell the car body to whomever for a very low price.
Since the move out of GCM was rejected, perhaps someone can still arrange for the car body to be shipped out by truck. Or if you're tight with the special movement folks at CSX, by flat car. Castleblayney has been moved to the "scrap line" and awaits an uncertain fate.
Contact me by email if anyone wishes to pursue this further or would like contact information about purchasing.

As Sandy noted, efforts have been ongoing in regards to the preservation of this car for several years now. What Sandy is NOT saying is that it was his mother, Kay Duffy, who donated the car to the GCRM with the understanding it would be preserved, nearly twenty plus years ago now. Roughly four years ago, the car was deemed excess to the collection. Sandy was contacted by DeWitt Chapel, owner of Chapel Hill, who gained access to the car so that he could, indeed, swap the trucks, which Sandy's mother had spent considerable money to bring up to the Amtrak standards of the time (roughly mid-1980's) prior to donation. As we all know, these now require further upgrading if one desires higher speeds, and so here we are.

Also as Sandy noted, considerable time, effort, and yes EXPENSE was put forth to find a route to return the car to the Port Huron area, including funds raised to cover said move (roughly $9,000); at roughly the same time, a PV owner tried to move a car with similar HYATT NREC rollers over CSX, and from what we have come to understand, did not properly take care of them, causing a derailment and or delay on CSX. CSX chose, from that point forward, to ban ALL movement of non-rotating end cap roller bearings (as many of you know, there has been considerable discussion about this at RPCA and APPRCO over this period), which basically put and end to our ability to move the car on its own wheel weeks before we were to do so.

I want to emphasize that DeWitt has been a SAINT here, as he has done everything he can to try and help us save the car. The other thing not mentioned is the land the car is sitting on is NOT owned by GCRM...and from what I am to understand, this is not the first time that equipment and collection items have been unceremoniously "scrapped" due to confusion and/or issues with the owner of the land. The fact is, as it sits now, PH&DRRHS, DeWitt, and several others have run out of ideas of how to save the car, and time is running out. In short...if ANYONE has an idea of how this car might not end up like GTW #5629 or CB&Q 5632 (becuase, in essence, this is the crossroads we are at) we would LOVE to hear it. Otherwise, the oldest C&O Business Car left (to my knowledge anyway) will be razor blades in a matter of weeks.

Simple as that.

TJG

The area behind the pavilion where a good bit of equipment is stored is not owned by GCRM? That seems odd as none of the rest of their stuff is getting cut right this minute. What gives? Could Dewitt give the carbody back to GCRM who could keep it on blocks long enough (maybe 6 months) to allow a plan of action to get the thing out of there and then donate or sell it cheap to PH&DHS or the like?

Where to start... lets see...

Well, it is too early ( or too late ) .. to ask if anyone has taken a look behind the fluting on this car to see if anything is left of the side sheets or side sills ?. Although some might not be familiar with the CSX car that was sold from the Greenbrier ( former PM car / originally private car St. Nicholas ) that was also a fluted C&O heavyweight, it's side sills and sheets were mostly absent upon removal of the fluting... A project was started to restore the car, before the feasibility of this project was realized and a tarp now covers temporary side sheets that were tacked in place... The tarp conceals the truth, that the restoration of this car was not a financially prudent decision (due to corrosion ) , given the massive expense to restore the car, versus what it would be worth when complete... This car was a complete car with fluting before the project started ( see photographs )

I remember the Castleblaney from 30 plus years ago, being stored outside in Pompano Beach, and I would say even back then, it's exterior structure was in certain places likely very questionable.... If there was some inherent value to save this car, than the simple solution is a 89 foot flat car, oak cribbing and AAR approved tie downs and off it can go.... Cranes at each end, and the solution is apparent.... However determining if the car is worthy of restoration ( either static or as an operation candidate ) should be paramount, before investing the cost of the flat car option... I suspect, if the future owners of the car, don't have the economic means for a couple of cranes, the cribbing and flat car option, than the likely concept of doing the likely structural repairs, along with the remainder of the restoration, seem unlikely.... However, this would not be the first emotional decision that led to a car being moved with great plans for the future that unfortunately fell short of the desired results.... Perhaps this story will have better results....


Dean Levin

( photographs of another fluted heavyweight that proved to be a disaster after removal of the fluting )

Will Amtrak move the car in their trains if it meets their current regulations after repairs and inspections without requiring a different style of bearings? Does CSXT's edict apply to cars in Amtrak trains on CSXT tracks?

Mr. Levin -

I would agree on the financial concerns related to any car restoration. This needs to be paramont beyond the preservation of the car, if possible. I would defer to your knowledge of car condition, etc....but I can guarantee that the car was not in this condition when it was donated. It speaks to a larger issue of not accepting items you can't take care of...but I digress. As you noted in an earlier post, however, private cars are more often than not preserved by work-a-day individuals who choose (whether financially prudent or not) to pursue the restoration and rehabilition of cars; most of my fellow members of RPCA would qualify in that category. If there isn't a financially viable way to save the car fine....we were simply hoping to find a way to make that happen, if possible. That said, I find private cars are a lot like wood boats and many antique/ classic cars; if the reason you are doing so is simply to get your money back or see some sort of major financial return...well, find yourself a decent mutual fund....

There is a larger issue and cautionary tale here though that I think continues to be lost in all this; when you don't own your own land, or at least enough to house your collection, others can and will dictate your collection/ deaccession policy. At the very least, some BASIC understandings need to be established before a piece of equipment is ever moved to a property, and reviewed by a lawyer for the protection of all involved. I have worked for institutions where land was owned outright and/ or controlled by others...and nothing creates havic quicker than an unclear idea of who has control of an item. Sadly, as I understand it, this is NOT the first time a situation like this has developed at GCRM. I would be happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but GCRM does not own much of the property it is on --- and as I have come to understand from others who recently acquired other items that have been deaccessioned from GCRM's collection, valuable parts (brake valves for instance) have been scrapped with little or no warning during "clean up" sessions by the owner of the property (the county i believe). If Castlblaney is to be scrapped, then PLEASE let it be the final situation where this misunderstanding and willy-nilly destruction happens at this site...



TJG

Mr. Boylan and TJG.. ( and forum )

First off for Mr. Boylan,

Just a few thoughts, and I sincerely appreciate your well thought out comments... Mr. Boylan, the likelihood of Amtrak moving this car is very doubtful and although I never say never, in this case I feel pretty good saying never.... There are plenty of reasons why Amtrak likely would not get involved, from one way shop moves being no longer considered unless the car can pass a yearly PC1 ( yearly Amtrak inspection ) , not sure if it ever had a PC 2 ( 40 year Amtrak inspection ) however it if did ( which is questionable ), it would require a PC 2A ( follow up inspection ) along with a PC 5 ( clearance diagram ) ... The PC 2A inspection, should it have previously passed a much more complex PC 2 would likely cause a serious significant expense, depending on the magnitude of the problems or un approved equipment ( example .. does the car have Amtrak accepted CS, F, or H couplers ), and again, if the PC 2 was never completed ( or cannot be proved ) than it is all a waste of time and expense... In regards to the bearings on the Castleblaney and use on an Amtrak train on CSX.. It is my understanding if the car is on an Amtrak train ( with oil or grease bearings ) than it's not a problem... However if the car is to be picked up by CSX and switched off a train or moved in freight service once taken off of an Amtrak train, then it won't happen...

However with a car that has been neglected as long as this car has been, the concept of attempting to meet all the requirements of Amtrak Specification 265, revision F or newer, ( Conversion of Conventional Type Cars to Run with Amtrak Head End Power Train Consists. ) is nearly impossible... ( unless you basically rebuild the car to run on Amtrak in Miami and then run it to Michigan and park it ) ....So save your money and order the flatcar....however if you insist ( which I believe you will live to regret ) request a copy of the Amtrak SMP 28603 - ( Mechanical Standard for Operating Privately Owned Cars in Amtrak Trains ) and then I believe you will agree...

In regard to stewardship and owning your own land, your points are well taken... However I would ask, why had the Casteblaney fell on times from the onset.. I would tend to believe, it got pushed around outside the train shed, and although ( in theory ) it was preserved, it sat neglected in the high heat, high humidity damp Miami environment for twenty plus years, until a deal was struck for the trucks..Yes land ownership is one of the problem, but being a good steward to what was donated is without question lacking in this scenario . The car was looked at, more as a parts source for another operational car, and now the body is left to be dealt with.. However, if you were going to spend 9000.00 plus in transportation cost, I suspect from past experience, you could order a flat car, buy the cribbing, hire someone to do the AAR tie down procedures correctly, ship the car, unload it in Michigan and likely be into this for less than 25,000.00. ( and remember if you shipped the car to Michigan on its own trucks someone would have had to eat the cost of two tractor trailer permit loads... one permit load for each truck .. to return the trucks to where ever they were going ) .. Overall, if the emotional attachment to this car is great enough, 25,000.00 is not that much to save the car, secure its future and get it moved quickly and efficiently... Of course, you could jack the car, have to purchase or borrow some wheel sets, and go through the car inspection process and go that road, however in the end, I guarantee you, lifting the car and safely transporting it on a flat car is the way to go.... I have done it, and it is an easier proposition than you might think...In the future, if the other class ones adopt this policy, this will become commonplace...

Hoping for the best


Dean Levin

( a picture or two of moving KCS 99 in Diboll Texas is included )

Well, the Castleblayney was scrapped this past week. Here is a link to some pictures. I did not take them and I dont take credit. http://www.michiganrailroads.com/MichRR ... rameLP.htm

Edit: didnt seem to work. I will just attach the pictures.

Two more.

That borders on criminal, though I don't blame Mr. Chapel - he really did try to help see that it was saved and sat on it for a couple of years. This is an indictment of poor management at GCRM. If Hurricane Andrew had not dealt them a pile of FEMA cash, I'm not so sure the rest of the collection wouldn't be in just as bad condition. Sorry to be harsh, but I don't see any other way to look at it.

Mike

Wow GCRM.... bet you feel proud tonight ?
I wont be handing over any rolling stock into your care anytime soon.

Mike Pannell

Sickening! And to add insult to injury the baby went out with the bath water. As mentioned previously fluting, platform railing, window frames, and an untold amount of interior fittings that could/should have been scavenged for other equipment. Experience has taught that even if the car is junk or to be junked there are always parts worth saving -- above and beyond someone's "status symbol" 6 wheel OSH trucks.

I think there is a misunderstanding about who owned the car. It was privately owned, and to spare the owners image I will not say who. The owner tried to save this car for the last two years. Many different ways of transportation were looked into. At the time CSXT had the bearings rule, which was recently dropped and is now a case-by-case thing. This car was completly rusted under the fluting.
Granted it was a very pretty car; and it is a loss...but time cant be un-done.