Thanks for your very kind words, T.J. It is rare that I find someone my own age in this field, much less with the same level of enthusiasm. Very soon this whole railroad preservation thing will be in our hands. What an exciting time to be involved!

K.R. Bell

> WOW! K.R. you said everything in a nutshell,
> and much more eloquently than I ever could.
> Nice to know a fellow archivist/ curator
> whose in the same age bracket. You and I
> went through similar paths it seems. I
> looked very closely at the Hagley Program;
> as you know it was/is pretty competitive,
> and as it was I decided to go a different
> route, but I have heard nothing but good
> things about U od D! Me, got my B.A. in 1997
> from Denison Univ. in Ohio, looked at Akron
> because Dr. Roger Grant was there, but ended
> up going to Clemson, where Grant became the
> Department head and Dr. Richard Suanders was
> also a prof. I couldn't have asked for a
> better paring of M.A. advisors; railfans,
> but with a grounding in history that tried
> their best to focus me on the study of
> history AS WELL AS the railfanning. Finished
> my M.A. in '99, tried to find work for about
> a year, no luck. Came back to Port Huron to
> help with my two grandmothers and a dad who
> had a stroke. Know the poor thing; had just
> enough for rent, bought a '50 pickup with
> money I saved (still drive it everyday;
> points and carbs are better than fuel
> injection and @#$#@$%# computers anyday) and
> got it back together, and fed myself and a
> VERY caring girlfriend/ fiancee (now
> wife)with ramon noodles and coffee (and when
> we were really lucky, eggs and hashbrowns at
> Waffle House......).
> Kept at it though, trying to break in to the
> field and fit in. Eventually after getting
> married, selling steel doors and hardware,
> and experiencing the joy of parenthood,
> (which has proved to a very valuable
> experience, and I have a lifetime yet to go)
> got the job as the Curator at the PH Museum.
> Life is a real challenge, and getting/
> staying in this profession is a greater one
> sometimes, but it worth it. I love my job,
> and although its a ton of work, I don't come
> home and kick the dog/ wife.kids because I
> hate my life. And you can't beat that with a
> stick. "I ain't ever gonna be no
> millionare, but at least I's got my job, my
> family, and a roof over my head." Keep
> it up over there; its nice to see that kind
> of interest from both the youth and those
> willing to hire them!

> TJ


http://rrmuseumpa.org

This whole thread reminds me that when I joined the Potomac Chapter, NRHS, 20+ years ago there were at least half a dozen of us in the high school/college age group. I recently attended a Chapter banquet and saw nobody of that age group today. One of the members told me "every year the average age of the membership is a year older." Incidentally, I think every one of our young group twenty years ago went on to mangement careers in the rail industry.

Alan Maples

AMaples@aol.com

Hope I am wrong here but it looks as if the railroad preservation movement is shrinking and is likely to have fewer operating entities as things shake down over the next few years. Two major reasons are the increasing costs of such basics as insurance and environmental remediation of barely toxic materials like cinders, and the natural attrition of operating equipment in use at fiscally marginal operations who just don't have the funds to do required heavy overhauls.

The impact on employment and opportunities isn't pleasant. I am one of TJ's aging boomers who made the choice to be a boomer professionally as well, going where the work was needed to be done. In the past decade I have gotten fewer and fewer leads from smaller mostly volunteer organizations who are trying to grow and more from established museums run by hired staffs with public sector support or connections.

As a dinosaur myself I can relate to Kurt's advice about the need for younger people who want to get into the business needing more professional credentials. There is less business for people to come up through in the learning process (which was a common career path in my younger days), and much of it is under the control of graduate degree carrying museum administrators.

We as an industry need to seriously approach our colleges and universities and work out legitimate internship and experience programs for younger prospects. The fewer positions that will be available in the future will go to those who are not only formally educated but have some real world experience under their belts and a start of a network too - either that or those with political connections. Hiring for political reasons buys a manager momentary favor from one powerful person today and a guarantee of a knife in the back tomorrow. Do the math.

So while we do need to continue to try to interst younger people, we don't need to try to bring those with a less life consuming interest into the fold profesionally. There won't be the space. We do need to bring them in to a pleasant and rewarding avocation as volunteers, for which there will always be a large unfilled need.

On those rare occasions when an Angel is available, do all you can to provide opportunity because they are the future. They are few and far between. I have been exceptionally lucky to have had 3 very fine and committed young people I couldn't scare off with a submachine gun, organizational politics, 1972 era compensation packages, and the usual sweat and grime in the past 3 years. It is gratifying to see the level of interest expressed in this thread by more under 30's who share that level of commitment.

So what I am saying here is choose carefully, share broadly and build the best team you can.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

In my earlier post, I mentioned the ad we ran here last fall. I don't believe that there was anything prejudgiced against young people in it, however, we received nearly no response, regardless of age. From this thread, I have received e-mails from several young people saying that they were aware of the ad, and interested in employment, but for whatever reason decided not to respond. We can't hire people who won't take the initiative to make themselves known. Being hired into one of the few openings in this industry is like playing the lottery, "You've got to play to win".

> Dave Sutter is a great
> example; here's a guy who any tourist
> railroad and museum should love to have,
> especially with his background in
> recreation/ parks management issues; yet
> he's still trying to get in the door. No,
> maybe it shouldn't be easy, but for someone
> as interested as a Hayes or an Angel or a
> Dave, there should be SOMEPLACE willing to
> give him a chance.



kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

Alan-
Not to pry, but anyone that any of us would know, or should? Those of us just below you sometimes need the encouragement.

TJ

> This whole thread reminds me that when I
> joined the Potomac Chapter, NRHS, 20+ years
> ago there were at least half a dozen of us
> in the high school/college age group. I
> recently attended a Chapter banquet and saw
> nobody of that age group today. One of the
> members told me "every year the average
> age of the membership is a year older."
> Incidentally, I think every one of our young
> group twenty years ago went on to mangement
> careers in the rail industry.

> Alan Maples


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

An excellent point Kelly. It is better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all. I know very few people who have been through the process (who am I kidding; I can't think of anyone) and won that job straight out of college or a technical school (another good place to be looking, me-thinks). The other side of it is that we have to get fellow teenagers and 20-somethings who do have their heads in TRAINS and other mags to realize that they CAN get a job in the industry. I've said it before, and I will say it again; many of the people that I now communicate with through RYPN seemed like demogods on some other plateau, one that I could never hope to attain. Hey, now I know they are average joe's (and jane's) like me, but its different when your younger.

Also, there seems to be this rotten core belief in today's society that money is everything and that working at a job you hate
doesn't matter as long as it pays $40,000 or higher. I can tell you that it took alot of convincing on my part with my own parents that this route was a good way to go; heck they wanted me to be a lawyer! I can even image the pressure for kids whose parents foot the entire college bill. True, there are VERY few (in my brief experience) jobs in rail preservation (or museum or archival work of any kind, for that matter)that pay that much, but maybe we need to a better job of convincing people that things like grease guns, hands-on history, and working with something that will outlast you is better than
anything corporate America could ever offer.

The long and the short of it; don't give up on my generation yet; their may be fewer of us, but we are still out there and willing to learn.

TJ

> In my earlier post, I mentioned the ad we
> ran here last fall. I don't believe that
> there was anything prejudgiced against young
> people in it, however, we received nearly no
> response, regardless of age. From this
> thread, I have received e-mails from several
> young people saying that they were aware of
> the ad, and interested in employment, but
> for whatever reason decided not to respond.
> We can't hire people who won't take the
> initiative to make themselves known. Being
> hired into one of the few openings in this
> industry is like playing the lottery,
> "You've got to play to win".


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

> Alan-
> Not to pry, but anyone that any of us would
> know, or should? Those of us just below you
> sometimes need the encouragement.

> TJ

Well, I don't know if I should give out names, but two guys went to Conrail HQ in Philadelphia, one of whom is now doing well in the NS sales & marketing department (I think the other left the railroad indusry after the merger); one guy went into management training at the Chessie, later left the railroad and more recently got into the dinner train and passenger car business. I own a short line railroad. There were some others about our age who later went into train & engine service with Amtrak and CSX. Not "heritage" employment, but we enjoy our work in the rail industry and we still turn up once and awhile at NRHS meetings, railroadianna shows, and aboard excursions.

Alan Maples


AMaples@aol.com

> An excellent point Kelly. It is better to
> have tried and failed than not to have tried
> at all. I know very few people who have been
> through the process (who am I kidding; I
> can't think of anyone) and won that job
> straight out of college or a technical
> school (another good place to be looking,
> me-thinks). The other side of it is that we
> have to get fellow teenagers and
> 20-somethings who do have their heads in
> TRAINS and other mags to realize that they
> CAN get a job in the industry. I've said it
> before, and I will say it again; many of the
> people that I now communicate with through
> RYPN seemed like demogods on some other
> plateau, one that I could never hope to
> attain. Hey, now I know they are average
> joe's (and jane's) like me, but its
> different when your younger.

> Also, there seems to be this rotten core
> belief in today's society that money is
> everything and that working at a job you
> hate
> doesn't matter as long as it pays $40,000 or
> higher. I can tell you that it took alot of
> convincing on my part with my own parents
> that this route was a good way to go; heck
> they wanted me to be a lawyer! I can even
> image the pressure for kids whose parents
> foot the entire college bill. True, there
> are VERY few (in my brief experience) jobs
> in rail preservation (or museum or archival
> work of any kind, for that matter)that pay
> that much, but maybe we need to a better job
> of convincing people that things like grease
> guns, hands-on history, and working with
> something that will outlast you is better
> than
> anything corporate America could ever offer.

> The long and the short of it; don't give up
> on my generation yet; their may be fewer of
> us, but we are still out there and willing
> to learn.

> TJ

Having ridden steam locos since I was 6 or 7 (although the loss of the NS steam program has curtailed opportunities to do so, until now) I must admit while I have a strong interest in them, I haven't considered doing it as a career [I wouldn't say never is never, and earning a sport(/recreation) managment might be a plus in this field], but don't forget about the non-employment volunteer opportunities. I happen not to have any desire to leave the Buffalo area, but do have a little shortline called the Arcade & Attica (probably known to some of you, they may have one of their steam engines, #18, running this fall) that I could volunteer at and help work on (along with the #14, which they endeavour to return), although my involvement with my NRHS chapter and our museum start-up would curtail that. My jist is that their is more, I think that 20 somethings can do to help in this regard, even if employment is not involved. For those who want to make their life of working in the steam/rail preservation, I would suggest considering the RailCamp program at Steamtown (where employment opportunities are discussed, teens get to talk with Steamtown employees, and get a chance to try skills like arc welding, plasma cutting, hot riveting, spray painting, steam loco inspection procedure). I would hope that the steam tourist industry would consider supporting RailCamp since it seems to be an excellent vehicle (one grad, at least, works for a steam tourist line). As in my case, I probably wouldn't have probably even consider volunteering one day for the A&A if it wasn't for RailCamp.Of course, I certainly do encourage any of my fellow teen/young adult railfans who want make this hobby/passion a profession to go ahead, and between them and those like me who want to ride and maybe even just volunteer we can keep steam going well into this century.


JBeutel611@aol.com