Brake valve rebuild times ?

tc-cvs · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:55 pm **Posts:** 45

I am looking for some information on how often the brake valves need to be
rebuilt on tourist train. we have looked in the CFR but it seams tourist trains are
not covered in a number of the sections.

What has you FRA inspector wanted done ?

What parts of the CFR has he said apply to your operation ?

We have also been discussing the brake pipe pressure, what pressure do
you run on your tourist train when running at less than 25 mph ?

thanks
Tim C

JasonA · **Joined:** Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:15 pm **Posts:** 44

Best I can find one freight equipment is 6 years, 2 years on passenger cars. I have not been asked about years in service, but we have had to do single car tests, and I am going to do this yearly, but I think it only needs to be done when the valve is changed.

All of them for us.

We run 90 psi.

Jason Annen
HVRM

SZuiderveen · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:48 pm

Air brake valves on most tourist trains are to receive periodic inspection in accord with Title 49 CFR Part 232 Appendix B; Section 232.17. The Former AAR Section AIII standard (S-045) is incorporated by reference, and is attached. The Codes of Tests required as part of the cleaning may be found here: http://www.rpcaef.com/

Tourist trains may operate at any appropriate air pressure over 70 psi, as long as the rear of the train is within 15 psi of the front of the train; and the train passes terminal and intermediate air tests. These may be found in Title 49 CFR Part 232 Appendix B; Section 232.10 through 13.

Steve Zuiderveen

SZuiderveen · **Posted:** Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:15 pm

I have added a file containing Appendix B of Part 232 to my previous post to make it easier for you to find.

Steve

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:41 am

Part 232 Appendix B wrote:

§232.0 Applicability and penalties.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), this part applies to all standard gage rail- roads.
(b) This part does not apply to:
(1) A railroad that operates only on track inside an installation which is not part of the general railroad system of transportation; or
(2) blah
(c) blah

49 CFR 209 Appendix A wrote:

By ‘‘general railroad system of transportation,’’ FRA refers to the network of standard gage track over which goods may be transported throughout the nation and passengers may travel between cities and within metropolitan and suburban areas. Much of this network is interconnected, so that a rail vehicle can travel across the nation without leaving the system. However, mere physical connection to the system does not bring trackage within it. For example, trackage within an industrial installation that is connected to the network only by a switch for the receipt of shipments over the system is not a part of the system.

When a tourist operation is conducted only on track used exclusively for that purpose, it is not part of the general system. The fact that a tourist operation has a switch that connects it to the general system does not make the tourist operation part of the general system if the tourist trains do not enter the general system and the general system railroad does not use the tourist operation’s trackage for any purpose other than delivering or picking up shipments to or from the tourist operation itself.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/pages/2348.shtml

FRA 2010 Tourist Railroad Guidelines wrote:

Some tourist railroads are neither insular nor part of the general system (i.e., stand-alone lines with no freight traffic). For these railroads, only the following regulations and statutory provisions apply:

Thus, there are many FRA regulations that do not presently apply to tourist railroads that do
not operate over the general railroad system.

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:58 am

This is Federal law as it applies to air brakes. FRA cannot waive a law. It's pretty scant. You have to have power brakes and you have to inspect them. It doesn't say how.
http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/49C203.txt

This law authorizes FRA to function, contingent on using cutting tourist railways a regulatory break.
http://vlex.com/vid/sec-general-authority-19260025

49 USC 20103 wrote:

(f) Tourist Railroad Carriers. - In prescribing regulations that pertain to railroad safety that affect tourist, historic, scenic, or excursion railroad carriers, the Secretary of Transportation shall take into consideration any financial, operational, or other factors that may be unique to such railroad carriers.

My last two posts is the law and regulation as it applies to "Not insular, but not part of the general system" railroads. This means you are able to draw a line on a map, and revenue freight stays on one side, and your tourist train stays on the other.

If your tourist train polishes the rails that a REVENUE freight train also polishes, then you are a "general system" railroad. "In theory", you bear the full weight of essentially all FRA regs:

FRA 2010 Tourist Railroad Guidelines wrote:

Tourist railroads are not required to comply with 49 C.F.R. part 238 (passenger equipment safety) or part 239 (passenger train emergency preparedness). Tourist railroads that operate on the general system must comply with all statutes and all other regulations and orders unless and until any appropriate waiver has been applied for and granted. Of course, FRA generally lacks authority to waive statutory requirements.

I say "In theory" because of 49 USC 20103 (above). As I said, FRA cannot waive law. That swings both ways. Congressional intent is fairly clear that Congress wants to relieve you of unnecessary and burdensome regulation. You are exempt from 49 CFR 238 and 239, and the rest you have to go get waivers for.

Now, what if you're a combo? Your passenger train traverses some general system track and sone non. I have personally seen precedent where the FRA inspector waived inspection of the non-freight track. The equipment was regulated for general-system of course.

Lastly I want to mention that "actually turning a rail over", as many museums do, is not required. See 209 Appendix A as quoted above. A line on the map will do. I also cannot say what happens if the tourist equipment carries passengers only on non-general-system rails, but nightly deadheads over general-system track to get to its shop.

tc-cvs · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:55 pm **Posts:** 45

Thanks for the information,
the one part that was of intrest is 232.3 c

thanks again
Tim

SZuiderveen · **Posted:** Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:05 pm

tc-cvs wrote:

Thanks for the information,
the one part that was of intrest is 232.3 c

thanks again
Tim

"Except as provided in 232.1(d)" which reads:

Quote:

(d) Except for operations identified in §232.3(c)(1), (c)(4), and (c)(6) through (c)(8), all railroads which are part of the general railroad system of transportation shall operate pursuant to the requirements contained in this part 232 as it existed on May 31, 2001 and included as appendix B to this part until they are either required to operate pursuant to the requirements contained in this part or the requirements contained in part 238 of this chapter or they elect to comply earlier than otherwise required with the requirements contained in this part or the requirements contained in part 238 of this chapter.

[66 FR 4193, Jan. 17, 2001

This does not mean that tourist railroads do not have to do air brake work, this means that only Appendix B applies to tourist and excursion railroads. This clause was written in anticipation of a Railroad Safety Advisory Committee (RSAC) being formed that would make modern air brake regulations particularly for tourist and excursion railroads. For a variety of reasons, this has not happened.

Steve

tc-cvs · **Joined:** Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:55 pm **Posts:** 45

We are not looking to "get out of airbrake work" we do all the brake work now
and have been . The question became what was the max time on the different
types of valves so we were not doing them more offtem than needed, we only
run on weekends in the summer. also the brake pipe pressure question was
because someone said that passenger cars ran 110 psi back in the day.
This disscussion has been very useful

thanks

Tim