Looks like there's still one working in Germany:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wvPDgD ... re=related

Pretty cool, and odd, to watch.

> Here's the problem: Read up on "fireless steamers". They were
> NOT just filled with "waste steam;" to properly operate with
> a full "charge" they were filled with a combination of
> superheated steam and water to an extremely high pressure

This is not particularly true. Many, if not most, Porter fireless locomotives were built to operate at 200psi or bellow. Compressed air locomotives, also built by Porter did indeed run at an extremely high pressure.

I own Porter 7197, Apache Powder #6, built 1930 and operated until about 1970 by Apache. As built, MAWP was 150psi. She could run for upwards of 5 hours on a charge and return for a charge when the tank pressure reached about 50psi.

Today we operate her on air. Yes, air operation is doable, but with some caveats. For one, you need a mechanical brake. If you depend on a steam jam, and you run low on air, then you have a problem. Mine was a steam jam, but at some point in its life, it was removed and replaced with a hand brake only.

Air operation does not last long. We can run maybe a half hour with a charge of about 100psi which is the limit of our compressor. On a warm day she will move along on a pressure as low as 15psi. That includes running up hill. Key here is volume, not pressure. Granted she is small at 7 tons and about a 300 gallon tank.

Based on my 30 years of experience operating narrow gauge steam locomotive boilers, yes it is probably more efficient and quicker to charge off a high pressure plant boiler, but it should be very doable even off a tractor or locomotive boiler, although the original MAWP of the fireless may not be achieved. For demonstration purposes, that should not be a problem. Again, the key issue in my mind is brakes.

Porter 7196, also a fireless and sister to my 7197, is also operational. Again, on air only.

Both are a blast to run. With no cinder grit and coal dust, they tend to be in fairly god shape mechanically. Key issues are rot on the tank from wet asbestos, especially on the front head of the tank.

So, counting the 7196, the 7197, and the Vulcan, I count three confirmed operational fireless locomotives. There are maybe one or two additional Apache locomotives that are also operational, so maybe 4 or 5 total operational engines.

I see such locomotives as ideal for very short caboose hops in a yard environment, even operating on air. They are clean (a green steam locomotive??), simple, generally in good mechanical shape, and with a sizable cab which may be good for cab rides.

They're only "green" if you're powering the air compressor with a water wheel, or a windmill, or electricity from "green" sources. Otherwise, like electric locomotives or transit, you're just generating the greenhouse gases somewhere else. <:-)

Do you have any photos or video of 7196 or 7197? Where do they live and when do they run?

> They're only "green" if you're powering the air compressor with a water wheel,
> or a windmill, or electricity from "green" sources.

I am really referring to the lack of coal smoke that some visitors and communities find offensive. For a steam locomotive, they are very green which is one reason places like Apache and Kodak used them.

JR

> Do you have any photos or video of 7196 or 7197? Where do they live and when do they run?

The 7196 and 7197 operate on private lines, not open to the public, so I am hesitant to publish much on this site as to actual location other than to say the 7197 is in NJ. For the 7197, if you send me an email (jrmay@monmouth.com) I can provide some photos and perhaps set up a visit if you like.

Some day, my thought is the 7197 could be moved to various museums for special events. At 7 tons she is light and compact so easy to move around. I wouldn't say she is a graceful looking machine, kind of has a face only a mother could love, but she is a joy to operate and looks great underway.

J.R.

Don't forget Apache 0-4-0F No. 2 (Porter C/N 6828) now on the private North County & Pacific Creek in southern California, which is operated on occasion.

Jeff Terry

I recently came across a list on the internet of rail equipment in Mississippi and found a listing for a fireless cooker at the Southern Railway station in Hattiesburg. The 0-4-0F was listed as Hercules Powder #21. I am not sure how old this list is or whether the engine is still there. Nor was there any other information (builder, gauge, etc.) and I wonder if anyone knows anything about it?

Les

JR May wrote;

"For a steam locomotive, they are very green which is one reason places like Apache and Kodak used them."

Well, yes and no, I don't know about Apache, but I do know that one of the main reasons Kodak used them was because of the presence of LARGE amounts of flammable solvents used in the manufacture of photographic film in the first half of the 20th century.

I have been inside some of the old film base (the flexible plastic part) manufacturing buildings inside Kodak (before they were torn down) and the presence of flammable solvents in large quantities was very evident. Each "bay" (section of the building holding a manufacturing machine) was separated from the next by a HEAVY fireproof wall (about two stories tall). This was done so the other machines could keep operating while they put the fire out on the problem machine. Lots of vents were installed to direct the flame and smoke out through the roof.

I don't think green in the sense of the environment was their main concern, but green in the sense of greenbacks sure was.

Cheers, Kevin.

I have it listed as Heisler #34/1935. I have a picture in my database from 2000; looking a little rusty; to the best of my knowledge; it is still there.

It is amazing how many of these were still operating many years after the last industrial steam locomotives were put to bed or scrap. I was lucky enough to see the North American Rayon 0-6-0 fireless switching around Elizabethton, TN on several occasions as a kid. I last saw her running in the 80s (and was allowed to hang in the cab under steam in around 1984), and I think was still operating as late as 1990. She’s well maintained on display in a park now, but some damage suffered when not properly drained during a freezing evening likely means she’ll never run again, like most fireless cookers… There’s a link to her here but the photo doesn’t show the condition she’s in today, now painted and under cover: http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive ... splay=1145

This is how the cooker looks now: http://www.city-data.com/picfilesv/picv19771.php

A nice display. Remember that ET&WNC #207 interchanged with this kettle many times. Now if we could only find #207....oh wait, I've seen it somewhere recently!?!

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31047

(Like this: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=304251 but that is #208.)

The NARC Fireless loco is in good external condition, well protected by a roof & fence in Elizabethton, TN. It is on dual gauge track with an ET&WNC boxcar and a Southern caboose. See this Photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbrad/26 ... otostream/

"It then sat on a siding in Hinton, WV for awhile before being moved to St. Albans. So, it is one and the same; the ALCO builder's information is incorrect, and the record itself is a duplicate."

I'm not certain what engine is located in St. Albans, but I'm almost positive that the Fireless cooker at Hinton is still sitting there (at least it was as of last July).

Tim Martin