Does anyone know of a HALE & KILBURN seat catalog, or other information on various models offered and how to identify each?.

The Hawaiian Railroad Society is restoring a 1920 2nd class OR&L built coach, (no 57) and needs 9 matching seats to complete their set.

The car has been stripped to the frame, each part drawn as removed, with new wood ordered for the side sills and truss planks

Eventually, a couple of years from now, seats will become an issue. The existing seats are marked Hale & Kilburn, with a pressed steel column base. I couldn’t find a part number anywhere (suggestions as to where we could look are welcome)

The car built and used by Oahu Railway and Land, to US Air Force, to US Navy, to Camino Cable & Northern in California, back to Hawaii… Somewhere along the line, bench seats replaced 9 of the walk over seats.

Eventually termites and rot took its toll… The car was getting pretty bad (but was moved as recently as January) The HRS now has a building to protect it, and is slowly restoring it. They have a restoration feasibility study in progress…

Randy Hees

Randy,

Have you considered having replicas cast from the originals you have on hand? I know the Strasburg builds replica seats of that manufacturer, you can find info on their site.

Taylor

These are a pressed steel pedestal.... hard to replicate. Mr Budd works I presume

The SPCRR does a cast seat end... but its an earlier pattern...

These seats were likely a commuter seat pattern... and likely available in someone's excess parts collections... if we can identify them...

Randy, Don't know if ths would help or not or if it is the same kind? There is currently a old Hale & Kilburn seat listed on Ebay.The listing number is: ( 200511342559 ) There are several photos posted with the listing.It is priced rather expensively at $1350.00 with the buy it now, it does have a make offer option.

Thanks for the lead, but the ebay seats are an earlier cast pedestal style, while these have a pressed sheet steel pedestal...

Randy

Are they anything similar to the seats used in the DL&W or PRR Commuter coaches?....

If so, you may be able to talk to a RR/museum that has them in surplus storage. There are still a good number of rusting in place DL&W coaches around the PA/NJ area.

I know Wilmington & Western had a boat load of seat frames left over from a never finished open air car conversion of a PRR MP54. I do not know if these were disposed of when that and several other cars were scrapped a year or so ago...but it may be worth a shot to ask them.

The reason I said DL&W is because I know the W&W also just gutted a DL&W car and successfully converted it into a parlor car...but then I realize, they are seat frames with electric heaters built into them...may not be what you want.

I bought a carful - well, trolley car full - from a trolley museum for Charlotte Trolley 85 almost 30 years ago, and they had a large quantity stuck up in the carbarn rafters at that time. Yes, they had the standard pressed steel pedestals. Might suggest networking through the grapevine.

dave

There were a large quantity of these seats available in the 1970s, from Chicago 4000's. You can recognize them because one of the seat back bracket is a straight design, while the other has an "L" shape, offsetting the seat back a couple inches from the rollers. They are a bit smaller than H&K seats made for typical railroad passenger equipment.

AFAIK there is still a 4000 available at ORM. There are other museums which have scrapped a number of these cars for the parts and should have some seats on hand.

I put up a couple of photos of the seats in question, and one of the car at https://picasaweb.google.com/RandyHees/ORL57Seats#

The carbody is now stripped to the frame, each part removed drawn and cataloged...
Lumber for sills and truss planks on order... The frame will move inside soon, placed on horses upside down for reconstruction.

I spent a week at Ewa at the Hawaiian Railway Society... I was impressed... like most of us, they have a bunch of deteriorated equipment... they are volunteers who work to cross purposes... but they are making good progress and are thinking about how to move forward.

Since I left they have been working on their 65 ton diesel, it now runs, and more work will make it useful once again... they have been reassembling all the steam locomotives including OR&L 85 acquired from a neighboring island.

Thoughts on the seats welcome... as stated previously they need 9. They are already making new wooden seats and backs, so cushions are not an issue. If something is close I have faith that they could modify them to work.

Randy

The seat looks like a H&K 199 EE. It still has the builders plate on the pedestal, have you looked to see if the model number is on the tag? I think there is a H&K catalog in the FM Smith Library. Call Alan Fisher and ask him. The catalog does not have much detail in it, just photos of various types. There are lots of minor variations in details and dimensional differences in H&K seats. It is going to be hard to nail down a specific seat.

Glenn Guerra made welded pedestals for one of his projects. He said the dies were much less expensive that he was expecting. Those dies are still kicking around somewhere.

Contact the folks at the Fox River Trolley Musuem.
They have recently had work performed for them by Kustom Car Seating Company which acquired Coach and Car Equipment Company. Coach & Car was the successor to Hale & Kilbourn.

Thanks everybody for the leads.

Yes, it has a builder's plate, but without some effort I couldn't read a catalog number. I will put someone on that... I did check the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary and it has a variety of H&K seats illustrated, additionally I believe I have found a catalog for sale.

Now I have enough information to get started.

Thanks, Randy

Randy:

Is the pedestal cast? Kind of looks that way. If so I have a pattern which was made for the Mckeen restoration that looks a lot like that. If you are interested I can send you a dimensional drawing of same. You are more than welcome to use it if it helps. We cast ours in aluminum to save on cost.

Chris De Witt