I have been watching the BBC Series "Seven Wonders of the Industrial World." For those interested in watching it; you can see it for free at:

http://documentarystorm.com/history-arc ... ial-world/

The American Experience series feature on the Transcon Railroad as I recall was much better than this series; watched the American Experience series on the Panama Canal, but not the corresponding episode on the BBC Series. But the ones on the Great Eastern and London Sewers are great.

To return to the original theme of this thread; I am not sure anyone is capable of making great things anymore. There won't be another ship to rival all ships like the Great Eastern, no Brooklyn Bridge, or Panama Canal. I think the Apollo/Space Shuttle program and the Concord were the last examples of greatness.

I have blamed this in part to a lack of boldness and creativity, brought about by Computer Aided Design and Computer Aided Manufacturing. Both of these tools help to optimize and visualize that which was already envisioned; but neither foster the original spark of creativity. If nothing, working within the realm of these tools may stun creativity.

But after watching these series, I came to realize something else. They were amazing feats, and rightly deserved to held up as such. But they came at a huge price in sweat and blood.

The construction of nearly all of them resulted in a loss of life that would not be tolerated today. The laborers who built the Transcon Railroad and the Panama Canal worked in terrible working conditions and were paid wages that would be illegal today; not to mention the boys bucking rivets inside the hull of the Great Eastern for just a few pennies a day, with a high attrition rate.

No accountant or investor would ever let a Great Eastern even emerge off the drawing board today; must less bankrupt multiple owners. And today's unions would not have let the strikes during the Transcon and Panama Canal construction end so quietly and quickly. And finally, no environmental group will allow another aircraft to scream across the United States, leaving a shock wave and upper atmosphere contrail behind while gulping huge amounts of jet fuel.

We have achieved today what everyone wanted -- a good working wage, 40 hour work weeks, no more child and slave labor, safe working conditions, environmental responsibility. But the end result is a tepid output of cars, aircraft, ships, structures and trains which offer safety, reliability, fuel economy, and environmental responsiblity, but are otherwise soul-less, difficult to distinguish from one another, and easily forgotten.

I have come to realize that keeping my beloved 1995 Ford Taurus wagon running like some folks kept their 67 Mustangs going will be extremely difficult because the plastic end caps are breaking down from over a decade in the sun; and where do you find a new set? Fast forward to today's cars with their built in computer networks and wiring fit for a fighter jet; and tomorrow's restorers have their work cut out for them; if they even have any reason for wanting to do so.

I think the days of making and saving great things is over. If you make a great car or aircraft today, and want an example for your grandchildren to see tomorrow, put it in an air conditioned building now and never, ever let it out or start it. That is the only way they will see one. Meanwhile, there will never been another Pyramid, Great Eastern, Panama Canal, or Apollo rocket, because never again will we build something great on the literal blood and sweat of other human beings.

Yeah this -- I remember. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28131

The question is -- is this really the hand of the real FRA in Washington, operating on a lawful and internally consistent plan? Or is it, once again, some overzealous local inspector run amok, versus a guy who secretly wants to be a victim of unfair regulaton so he can complain about it hither and yon?

Fundamentally, justice in America is self-serve. You get the justice you ask for. And by law, you HAVE to ask for it. Then justice FIRST to whomever is boldest, and THEN gets decided on facts and fairness. It's very much about convincing, cajoling, conning the other party to acquiesce - getting them to choose to lose. Once both parties agree, BLAM it's done, fair or right doesn't enter into it. Works for lawyers, works for inspectors, works for a lot of things.

The question is do you want to be a sucker, or be a hero. I'd argue one of those is American and falls in the category of doing great things. The other... not so much.

They say the tiger who stalks his prey is not a hateful or malicious tiger. he's just "doing what tigers do". Yet that is no reason to lie there and let the tiger eat you. The same can be said of the government. Somebody who understands the issue with FRA ought to take the fight to them. Good hunting, whoever you are.

Americans have always been capable of "Greatness", whether building great things or helping others. Regardless of rules, there will always be those who bend or break them.

I started helping tourist railroads back in the mid 1970s. I can blame Southern 4501 for that, it started something in me that has not stopped, but has be derailed many times by being involved with groups that just were not worth my time. I personally feel it is past time that the FRA stepped in and started regulating the tourist railroad industry. They cross highways, haul people, much of this with equipment approching 100 years of age.

I stood before a board meeting of a group that was operating a steam locomotive that had no business of even having a fire in it. It had a crack in the crown sheet, 18 broken staybolts and several leaking tubes. The head of the group made the meeting more about me then the problems of the locomotive. I watched an individual of another group inspect the operation of the train and give it a passing grade, even though the 4 cars only had one car with properly operating brakes. This was before Gettysburg, when the groups inspected each other. The state involved finally put the steam locomotive in question, out of service, it has not had a fire in it since.

As for "Fundamentally, justice in America is self-serve" it is also about who is the "Boldest", who has possession and dares you to do something. As for "You get the justice you ask for", that is just plain bull. The only people who get the benifit of the law today are the crooks and the victims have to buy their justice. There is no free plate to the American judical system, if you do not have the money to purchase the law through lawyers, you do not get any. They charge you more for an hour or two, then most of us clear in a week of work, and then we still have to pay our bills.

I recently had 2 semi trailer loads of material stolen from me in Illinois and sold to a scrap yard. The thief, it has been determined by the Attorney General in the county where the theft occurred, will not be charged. "Give him a free pass to do it to someone else". Now, what do I do? Sue him in civil court, get a judgement? He has nothing. So how do I collect or repair the damage he has cost me? Who is his next victim?

Rules are ment for everyone. As for "FRA Safety Glazing". Does some member of the general public have to loose an eye, when some cheap glass shatters, when a caboose goes on the ground? What about the steam thrashing engine that blewup in Ohio and killed several people?

Yes, there are some "overzealous local inspectors", but there are also some who turn their heads and look the other way, until something happens, and then try and cover their rear ends. Learn to live with the rules, the railroad industry has to.

The Good News: Someone says he wants to "make America great again."

The Bad News: It's Donald Trump:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel ... great-agai

Hate to kick up an old thread but this video is very relevant to regulations. The crane operator did not want to lift a certin load, his super made him anyway, so the operator called OSHA hoping the could shut down the lift. But OSHA could not shut it down so the OSHA rep decided to film the lift just to document it. See the link below


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWlj5nEqRCE

Rules are written for a reason, and generally are written to prevent something that happened before from happening again.
What is there to be gained from arguing with your FRA guy? Our early CMO did an end run around the local guy and it took a good while to patch up the SLSTA's standing with them. I made sure they were involved in anything we did and kept in touch with our guy. Kept both of us out of trouble and made for a great relationship.
I learned many years ago in the Army that there was always that one wiseass who had to argue and question everything and he was the one who always suffered the most.
Follow the rules, if in doubt about something ask your guy. He will appreciate being in the loop.

"Just follow the rules." I'm in complete agreement - we can start with the US Constitution and scrub the federal register of everything that is not specifically delegated to the federal government. Most safety regulations, especially OSHA can be tossed out the window.

If Illinois wants to require safety glasses for some task and Texas does not, then each state is free to do so. If the states want to establish national standards, then there are things such as the UCC that can be looked to as models for how to do this. Certain safety/inspection requirements for interstate commerce could be argued to be regulated by the Congress to establish uniform standards that PROMOTE interstate commerce. Hi-vis vests for every transportation worker in the country are not what I'm talking about, either.

I'm sorry, but "just follow the rules" leads to tyranny by the state and despotism. Creeping statism must be fought at every advance. Conductor certification comes to mind, as does PTC requirements, as does electronic device use, as does 3-step protection, as does CO2 regulation, as does elimination of Edison's light bulb. If companies or individuals want these things and the economic justification, business interest, or social responsibility desire is great enough, then that's their business - NOT Fedzilla's. "Just follow the rules" leads to "Just sew the Star of David on your clothes, it will be ok." "Just get on the train, it will be ok." "Just go take a shower, it will be ok."

In liberty,
Mike

Who is John Galt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W07bFa4TzM

[quote="Newriver400"] If Illinois wants to require safety glasses for some task and Texas does not, then each state is free to do so. If the states want to establish national standards, then there are things such as the UCC that can be looked to as models for how to do this. [quote="Newriver400"]

Ah, state's rights again. Try making that safety-glasses pitch to an OSHA inspector next time one of your employees loses an eye (assuming you're one of those "job creators" who would be flourishing in this economy but for pesky worker safety laws and so forth). Really, you think the adoption of uniform commercial laws as envisioned by Llewellyn to streamline and harmonize inconsistent state law actually supports a political concept of individual state sovereignty that was fully resolved by the outcome of the late War of the Rebellion?

[quote="Newriver400"] I'm sorry, but "just follow the rules" leads to tyranny by the state and despotism. *** "Just follow the rules" leads to "Just sew the Star of David on your clothes, it will be ok." "Just get on the train, it will be ok." "Just go take a shower, it will be ok." [quote="Newriver400"]

So Federal standards lead inexorably to the subjugation of ethnic minorities? You must have drunk a three-dome tank car full of Kool-Aid to have come up with that one. A more honest argument, one that is actually supported by our nation's own historical experience, would acknowledge the role of "state's rights" in producing a similar result in the American South. At least the Nazis had the comparative civility to end the suffering of those they oppressed under their own twisted logic.

I don't come to RyPN to be politically prosthelytized. Because you sign yourself "in liberty," you might want to consider the rights of others to be free of your fascination with discredited political theories, particularly one that was roundly defeated starting 150 years ago next month. There are, presumably, other forums where the ideas you want to discuss are the object; here, it's about railway preservation.

You really haven't had any practical experience with government bureaucrats who are paid to do nothing but enforce inane regulations and miss glaringly obvious major safety issues, have you? You must not realize how much needless regulation your local operating railroad museum has to comply with just to move a locomotive and caboose back and forth on 2000' of track at 3-4MPH.



Well, it can. States, like commercial enterprises or individuals, will, given the incentive (of other states enacting certain policies), act to attract commerce and grow the tax base - unless you happen to live in, say, Vermont, California, or Illinois. Promoting commerce and thus wealth creation is what keeps people from voting with their feet and leaving. States wanting to attract large scale commerce would generally find that adopting uniform standards developed in conjunction with other states beneficial for all. However, this is done voluntarily and with modifications for local tradition and conditions sans the illegitimate force of federal law.

Your assertion that the issue of state sovereignty was "fully resolved" by the Late War of Northern Aggression is laughable. All that proved was that compulsion and submission at the point of a gun works every time. Critical analysis does indicate that South Carolina royally stepped in it by firing first at Fort Sumter. That was the only thing that gave any legitimacy, as thinly veiled as it was, to the use of force by the north. Another theory proven was that superior manufacturing and commercial development is a primary component of the ability to fight a war.

The sovereignty of the original thirteen states is unassailable. Those states voluntarily, through democratic action, ceded some of their authority to the federal government for the mutual benefit of the sovereign states. A pact entered into voluntarily can be dissolved the same way under the terms of the pact - there are no terms in the Constitution that address this and thus the contract can be withdrawn from at any time by the same legitimate democratic means into which it was entered.



Although an absolutely moral outrage, I strongly suspect that most descendents of the slaves would concur that their ancestors' suffering after arrival in the colonies in no way compares to the genocide inflicted by the National Socialists. How can anyone with any sense of decency conclude that forced starvation and mass murder is "comparative civility" to forced agricultural labor requires a twisted mind, indeed. My sympathies to yours.

Federal standards and programs DO in fact LEAD to the subjugation of minorities. Are you aware of how demographically racist Social Security is? Working black Americans contribute far more than they will ever live to see versus working white Americans. Further, the wealth stolen by force of Social Security taxation can not be inherited by subsequent generations to increase a family's wealth over time. Things like the minimum wage do nothing but increase unemployment, especially for minorities. Economic forces are not static, as statists believe, but dynamic. They are influenced by policy and regulation tremendously, thus raising taxes leads to decreased economic activity. Enacting or raising the minimum wage means employers cannot afford to hire as many workers, so unemployment increases EVERY time this occurs. Lest it be forgotten that the purpose of someone's business is to indeed make money and not to provide jobs or any other social benefit. A very real and tangible benefit to society of a successful business enterprise is that it does indeed benefit society.

AFDC, food stamps, federal housing, and lack of school choice has lead to the decimation of the black family and created a new plantation that is ever harder to escape - the government plantation that breeds crime and drug use, forces attendance at ridiculously expensive (to the taxpayers) but non-performing schools, promotes single mother families with no father, encourages the slaughter of millions of unborn black children, and creates a perpetual dependency cycle. The same thing is happening to the Hispanic population, especially those here illegally. Once caught in the cycle, it is hard to get out. Yet, it is this cycle of dependency that statists must have to gain and stay in power so they can instruct you on the proper way to live your life and raise your children.



There is a "friends/foes" option. At least you know that "newriver400" is Michael Brown from Suwanee, Georgia and not someone who hides behind a pseudonym. You also know that my responses to politically charged messages or discussions will be those from a conservative point of view. There is no right to not be offended. If you are offended by nudity, you wouldn't look at a Playboy magazine. If you did choose to do so, you have no right whatsoever to complain. The only discredited political theories in history are those of collectivism and "social justice". No, the concept of individual liberty and equal justice under law is what has lead to the ascendency of America, with bumps along the way, and the most prosperous and advanced nation in the recorded history of human existence. Within the US, have you noticed which states are growing and which ones are in decline? Red states consistently out perform blue states and inherit their electoral votes as well. That is not coincidental or by happenstance.

Yes, it is about railway preservation. Sometimes, however, it is paramount to discuss underlying issues that do have a direct impact on the ability to preserve, interpret, and demonstrate the elements of railway history.

Michael Brown
Suwanee, Georgia

Okay for [many expletives deleted]'s sake, I live, eat, sleep, and breathe this kind of political debate elsewhere online, and even *I* can't bring myself to get involved with this level of so-called political discourse.

Take it elsewhere, for [bleep]'s sake. I don't give a rat's a** whether I agree with "Churchward" or Brown. Not here, please.

Ah, there's the Sandy we know and love.