Does anyone have a photo link to that upside down German kriegslok that is now an object d' art over there?

ryarger@rypn.org

Looks right side up to me!

> Does anyone have a photo link to that upside
> down German kriegslok that is now an objet
> d'art over there?

I have a picture of 52.2751 on my update to "Surviving World Steam Locomotive" CD-ROM, but don't have it on a website anywhere. It is "plinthed" upside down in Konrad Adenauer Platz, Marl, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Does anyone have a photo link to that upside
> down German kriegslok that is now an object
> d' art over there?


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Not exactly my cup of tea when it comes to art, but here goes...

(follow below link)

Regards,
Jim Robinson


upside down kriegslok

> Not exactly my cup of tea when it comes to
> art, but here goes...

> (follow below link)

> Regards,
> Jim Robinson

UGH!!!!

Remember, recently there has been a great deal of controversy in the German art world involving another "avent garde" practioner who has collected human cadavers,preserved and encased them in a plastic film, and made sculptures from them. It is all the same brand of nihilistic art that proposes to exlore the "ugly pointlessnes" of human existance. Hard to believe industrial techno pop music and this garbage came from the land of Bach, happy accordian tunes, and sausage with kraut.

Question: Who funds this stuff?

> UGH!!!!

> Remember, recently there has been a great
> deal of controversy in the German art world
> involving another "avent garde"
> practioner who has collected human
> cadavers,preserved and encased them in a
> plastic film, and made sculptures from them.
> It is all the same brand of nihilistic art
> that proposes to exlore the "ugly
> pointlessnes" of human existance. Hard
> to believe industrial techno pop music and
> this garbage came from the land of Bach,
> happy accordian tunes, and sausage with
> kraut.

> Question: Who funds this stuff?

At least when it comes time to restore her, there will be no concerns that the stack wasn't capped!
Don C.

old_fxrs@msn.com

In Germany, as in the U.S. art is funded by a mixture of public and private sources. Major firms have charitable trusts, (Daimler Chrysler, Bayer, etc.) There's a good number of well to do individuals there, as here., and I'm sure that they commision works, and sponser pet artisits. And of course governments, both federal and local, fund specific projects and museums. I think that the funding mixture has a good deal more government money in it, but save for the Nixon administration, our government is worlf renowned for it's miserliness when it comes to almost anything of an artistic or cultural nature. Now, I won't say as this is my cup of tea either. I'd like to think that a steam locomotive has more value as a historical artifact than as a component of an artwork, but I'm not especially familiar with German types, so I can't speak as to how common or valuable the Kriegslok would be at this point. (I've heard of it, so I presume it's not rare.) There was a piano encased in foam cushion material and cloth that was made into a piece of art here. It's another case of rendering a tool unusable and calling it art, on the other hand, I can clearly say that the value of the average concert grand as an artifact isn't great. (They're common and easily obtained if you want to drop a hunderede grand or so.) So that's the real question. If this Kriegslok is an irreplaceable artifact, then it shouldn't have been used as a piece of art. But otherwise, whether I like it or not, it's fair game. My taste in art is not universal. I'd be willing to bet a modest sum of money that I can name good fine art music from almost a century ago that no one else on this list would even call music, in spite of the fact that it's VERY carefully constructed according to what are probably empirically the strictest conventions in Western Music. (I refer here to the twelve tone serialism of the New Vienna School. If your currious, ask me and I will explain it to you.) In spite of the fact that very few people like it, it is almost universaly regarded as the most important musical development of the early twentieth century. (And some of it is truly very good, but you really have to get to know Western Music to appreciate it. It's not easy.) For this reason, governments try very hard to suspend their personal judgement when they are giving funding to art works. Else they should likely just fund the most conventional and widely accepted art, and without the new and Avant Garde art can't grow. (Truly new art of any form is often met with public and critical rejection. I could make a lsit, but I don't want to lecture on music history on the list.) Anyway, now that I've gotten way off topic, I'll simply say that I'm actually glad that governments fund the arts, and I think that this sort of art, whether or not we like it, is healthy for our society.

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

> ... I'd be willing to bet a modest
> sum of money that I can name good fine art
> music from almost a century ago that no one
> else on this list would even call music,....

Oh, yeah? I'll see your Schoenberg and raise you a Webern. Oh look, Lulu, I win - hope my modest sum of money is in the mail.

And now back to Glenn Miller.

> Oh, yeah? I'll see your Schoenberg and raise
> you a Webern. Oh look, Lulu, I win - hope my
> modest sum of money is in the mail.

> And now back to Glenn Miller.

And Count Basie, Chic Webb, Tommy Dorsey, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong...

hrrhs@aol.com

> And Count Basie, Chic Webb, Tommy Dorsey,
> Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong...

Don't forget Jimmie Rodgers, Scott Joplin and other greats at elevating American folk styles into not only popular entertainment but preserving them as true classical expressions of the human condition. "Waiting for a Train," anyone?

Lest we forget Benny Goodman. I must say this is one of the strangest photos I've seen posted since someone here posted the photo of the F-unit made into the parade car. I love oddities, spent most of the evening trying to stand on my head on the computer desk just to see what it would look like right-side-up.

-Angie

Ladypardus@cs.com

The Kriegslok 2-10-0's appear to be pretty common, so this definitely isn't a rare locomotive. Also, this example may have been a "junker", note the missing rods and valve gear.

You may debate whether this is fine art or not, but for me the real question is how did they postion the engine and tender without mashing things up. After all this isn't an HO scale model that you can turn over on its back for service! I think the REAL artist here was the rigging outfit (crane operators, etc) that somehow picked up the locomotive and flipped it over without crushing parts of itself. Or was it placed (upright) on a pivot and rotated/lowered into postion--if so, at least they don't have it spinning around and around like a pig roast!!

Like it or not, it's still pretty amazing.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

> I have a picture of 52.2751 on my update to
> "Surviving World Steam Locomotive"
> CD-ROM, but don't have it on a website
> anywhere. It is "plinthed" upside
> down in Konrad Adenauer Platz, Marl,
> Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany.
Is the 52.2751 the same engine as photographed in this thread or a different town? I seem to remember on that was upside down, but was mounted off the ground at a funny angle! Does that ring any bells?

Also the 52 class was the most common of the 2-10-0's, and included engines that were sent to Austria, and I think Poland, and perhaps other countries. The one pictured seems to have a "Whale-bottom" tender, like the Austrian Engines or a few of the East German engines. As I recall virtually none of the steamers in West Germany(before the re-merger) had whale-bottom tenders, but the regular DB style.

Now the question is, when was this done, and is this town in the former East German region!

I am just glad I got to see real German Steam in regular service in the 70's. I always enjoyed those three-cylinder Pacifics on the Rheine-Emden Line. Rode the cab of one for 7 hours one day...took maybe 5 pictures, and 20 seconds of film....just enjoyed the 72 MPH ride on the doubletrack wooshing by train after train---80% steam hauled...makes me sick thinking its all gone like everything else. Guess thats why I have trouble getting excited about some of the excursions today...sorry but I am a little spoiled I guess having seen a lot of the real thing!
Greg Scholl

videos

sales@gregschollvideo.com

The image was left-over from the last time I posted I guess, and I didn't erase it. Oh well, another view of 765 in disguise. Guess we will see the REAL 765 next year perhaps???
Greg

videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

My basic point was that I'm glad that we're not the ultimate judges of art, as new art often defies conventional taste, and is frequently vindicated by history.(I believe that Picaso and Beethoven and their ilk have become quite popular and well regarded even if they met critical derision in their day.) Congrats to all who can enjoy Webern. I 'd have lost the bet, but you've got to book it first. (I stick out my tounge and pffbt like a ten year old at this point.) But seriously. I'm just saying we've all got our own oppinions, and not one of us has been put in charge of a minor country yet, so they don't mean a whole lot. Voicing my support for the National Endowment for the arts as it were, even if I don't like all the stuff they've funded. I always try to approach a piece of art with an open mind, (though it can be difficult.) At least the Kriegslok isn't disfigured. And that was one mean feat of rigging, I must say.

david_ackerman@yahoo.com