There is the one issue that binds all recreational railroading, park railroads and operating museums togvether, like it or not, insurance. Since even one accdent has the potential to make life miserable and more expensive for al of us, I submit that news of this nature IS indeed relevant.

Gord

Pwned! I love how Righthaven thinks their refuge is the 9th Circuit Court. They've clearly never heard of Jarek Molski. The 9th sanctioned him so far his lawyer's law firm folded up.
http://overlawyered.com/2007/09/ninth-c ... inly-lied/


Yeah, the negative person usually thinks they have a monopoly on reality. And they usually don't.

And there is a proud tradition in preservation of asking people for their opinion, finding fault with what they have to say, and doing something else regardless of the consequences.

PC

First off, I'd like to apologize for my remarks in the Cleveland thread. As someone who operates a park train, and will tomorrow night for that matter... It hits homes. Although mine is to a larger scale, it still hits me with thought like "This could have been me" and "If that happened there... what should we do with our operation to avoid it from happening here". I've spoken to the operator involved before, he's a nice guy, and seeing constant bashing of how he was operating the ride upset me to a point that I could no longer bite my tongue. As it turned out, what I said was already publicly released anyway, but that is beside the point. Moving forward, that thread, has become nothing more than back and forth arguing of maybe this happened, or he said he did this. If i was moderating, I would have locked it long ago. While I feel the original thread was an okay post for this site, it headed south fast.

I say it was an ok post for this reason:

The site is for "Railway Preservation" and to me, this was a working railroad. Any park train operation built before 1985 is something i'd consider a preserved and operating railroad, not to mention the equipment was from the 1950's. This is to say that early Cagney type operations, early 7.5" up to 15 and 16" I would consider preserved railroads, unless it was built in the last 15 years. I am by no means saying if someone saved their great grandfathers post war Lionel tin train set, it would be considered a preserved railroad.

The initial post on the accident to me, when I saw it, was telling me a railroad a park, that's been around for decades, has had a triadic accident. As a matter of fact, this was where I first heard the story and then researched it on my own for further information. I feel that if a post such as that is going to be made, it should be left as nothing more than "this has happened, at this location, please keep these people in your prayers". If others want to find more information about it fine, Google it and look it up. There is no reason to post link after link stating the same information again and again, while others feed the fire and add their own two cents about the incident. Bring it to those of us who cares attention, and let us search for it if we want to learn more or follow the story.

Again, if I crossed the line with my remarks, I apologize for that, however I will not stand back and be called a foamer who's not interested in preservation but only interested in the present day caring less about the past or preserving it. If was here only to lurk and create havoc, I wouldn't be bothering to share information from a book i'm currently writing on operations dating back to the 1880's and even earlier. I wouldn't spend my free time stomping around in the woods for remains of said operations or attempting to restore saved equipment if i didn't have a passion for the preservation of such equipment. I wouldn't be shelling out 75 dollars for a cd containing locomotive data sheets for all major builders and second hand sellers if i wasn't interested in it. Now I'm sure the remark was not geared toward me directly, or if it was I was not the only one being called out, however I will not tolerate being called such a slanderous name. I may only be 20, but it doesn't mean I behave the same as the others in my age group. In the Cleveland thread yes, I stepped out of the shadows and made some comments that I felt needed to be said, mainly through personal experiences in that type of a situation, while others wanted to bicker and try to out do each others previous comments. Even as a young child, I was not one to hang out with people my age... I chose to socialize with my fathers friends or others who were older than me considerably, and have gained many valuable contacts over the years from it. I admit, my generation is a nightmare in the making, and everyday I fear for the future of my children if I even decide to have any, but again, it does not mean we are all the same. I joined here and didn't post for a year if not longer, mainly because nothing of interest to me was being posted, but more so because I was afraid of being ganged up on by everyone on this site who wants to consider every young member a trouble making waste of bandwidth. I watched and saw that most who asked valid questions, did get responses, though fewer than others of great seniority would receive.

As a closing statement i'm considering having my account removed and my posts removed as well, mainly just because I feel more unwelcomed than others. For those of you who are against the younger generation and their take on railroading, I have a few words to share. You need to learn to accept that not all of us are here to cause trouble, and you can either accept those who are not, and allow them to preserve for future generations what has already been preserved today, or you can let the people who "just like trains" take care of everything and let tag artists have their way on 1920's and 30's equipment as it rusts where it was left 50 years ago. The more I write my book, the more I realize it wont be a top seller as most of the people it is geared to will most likely have past away by the time its published, and the younger generation is too busy drooling over what paint scheme Amtrak will come up with next. I'm about half tempted to give up on that as well.

If you're thinking of leaving because people are arguing with you, or because they seem to be arguing with you... that's just normal for bulletin boards on the internet.

Besides it doesn't matter what you say. It matters what you preserve. This being railway preservation.

Geez, Jason. You just got here! Hang around a while. I enjoy your pictures and the history they report. To me that is the essential purpose behind this web site.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Hi Scott--

Sorry to check in so late, I don't get to the Interchange all that frequently any longer. Scott, what you may need to factor in is that the rest of RyPN other than the Interchange is more of less a "ghost site." A little history...

Back in the day, around 1998 or so, Hume Kading and Bob Yarger founded RyPN. I joined them a year later. Together, we three actively managed RyPN through about 2002 as I recall it, and became the first Board of Directors after RyPN incorporated as a 501(c)3.

As Hume added features, others joined in an gave valued help moderating Flimsies and the Interchange.

However, by 2003 or so Hume was getting burned out--he'd spent years chasing content for the magazine part of the site. He and I each spent hours a year for years on end writing for the site, editing submissions, and marking them up in HTML. We were no closer to getting a reliable stream of content.

For my part, I had put a lot of myself into moderating the Interchange, enforcing the rules of conduct as posted so the site would be a professional conversation and an alternative to the "anything goes" usenet and Web BBS culture. Eventually I got worn out fighting over and over with the same minority of posters who felt a philosophical need, or else a strong personal desire, to make the Interchange a safe home for their preferred style of sarcastic, ad-hominem, sharp-edged, shouting match. They evetually wore me out, and I decided my time would be better spent on other, more rewarding things. So, I resigned as a moderator. Shortly thereafter, Hume and I both stepped off the Board of the site and separated ourselves from any responsibility for it. The site and corporation were now in the hands a new Board.

Shortly after that, when the moderators banned a well-known poster on the Interchange for repeated violations of the terms of service, the poster threatened to sue the Board. The threatened suit was without merit, but RyPN had no D&O insurance and the Directors were unwilling to incur the risk of being sued and having to defend themselves as individuals (and I don't blame them a bit). They resigned en mass. So at that point, RyPN had no Board at all.

An attempt was made to recreate a new Board, but it seems to have faltered.

And that brings us to today. The long and the short is, there is no organization behind RyPN and there has not been for over five years now as best I can tell. A generous sponsor hosts the site for free but wants no editorial or other responsibility for it; other volunteers moderate the Interchange as they see fit, run flimsies, and post the occasional book review. But there is no editorial staff, no financial staff, no treasury, no Board of Directors. There is really is no wizard behind the curtain any more. What you see is what you get.

In short, its like a lot of railway museums--withering away after the people with the sharpest elbows made involvement no longer rewarding for the people who'd been doing the work, and the founding generation burned out.

Thanks, Erik, for your history of RYPN. It answered a lot of my questions about the site over the years. And I'd like to thank you, Hume and Bob for all of your fine work in the past. It's a crying shame that your vision for the site hasn't turned out the way it should have.

Perhaps the Board could be split into two separate venues.
One for "Crosshead Guide Spacing Question"
One for ""Junk/derelict" artists/photographers"
Not much intertwining between the two.......

As a daily reader of RYPN, I immediately and mentally filter out the sensational items except those that might have impact on the preservation community including parts of this thread. I have most of the magazine copies of what I consider to be the ancestor of this forum, Railway Preservation News, and I value the incredible value of these materials - extending it to read those topics that support the same ends. I commiserate with the former moderators over the same issues that afflict any open forum - they only get worse with time. My postings are kept few and to a specific preservation point of view, mainly with my volunteer work at the Pullman Library. I cannot control those who have a different point of view but realize the issues in trying to reason, and therefore post on other groups to help others restore or model railway equipment. Thank you, guys, you should never get discouraged, only know that you are appreciated. Some of your legacy lives on. In the meantime, my volunteer efforts will be reported as appropriate to the original forum aims. I do work with others on restoring cars at IRM, 1906 B&M 1094 and 1950 Zephyr Havelock baggage, as an associate member receive the ARM Parts List postings, as well as making more copied materials available through the Pullman Library - at the moment Haskell & Barker freight cars 1906 -1922.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson

I would suggest that RYPN has evolved to be a website for enthusiasts and hobbyists and to a lesser extent operators - and others who look to preservation as a hobby or personal pursuit. At one time RYPN also tried (and had some success) in garnering participation from museum administrators, public historians, academic historians, and others who looked at railway preservation as part of their professions. This discussion seems to have a consensus that these participants are not as active as they once were - and anything approaching a critical discussion of museum practices seems to be decidedly unwelcome. The decline of editorial content would is also reflective of this too.

There is nothing good or bad about that - rather it is the result of market forces and different people making different choices about where to connect with colleagues. Freedom of choice is a good thing.

In reflecting on this, I suggest that this be reflected in a slight re-branding of homepage and banner to something along the lines of "RYPN Interchange: Old Train Enthusiasts Discussion Board" The existing domain and RYPN and content would remain on-line, but it would shift the focus squarely to the discussion board - where most activity occurs anyway. The name also is reflective of the common strand linking most discussions in recent years - old trains and people who like them.

Finally, the re-branding might help in attracting new participants by clarifying where the actual life is at this website. The homepage itself is pretty dead.

Thomas Cornillie

Also "old people who like old trains". Take a look around the room at the next meeting!

RYPN certainly is not reflective of the interests of most of the younger railroad enthusiasts today. The topics of primary interest out trackside in my area are MBTA MP36's and CSX SD40-3's. If you go and talk with the railfans, it is likely the discussion will include microprocessors, emissions packages, HEP units, and PTC.

There is nothing wrong with that either, it is all part of tomorrow's "railroad history".

But there are some ominous signs for railroad preservation. The biggest turnouts regionally for meetings are two railroad enthusiast groups that are not affiliated with any national organization, and neither has the words "historical" or "history" in their name. They are both very innovative as to their range of programs, and frequently host guest speakers from the railroad industry. In contrast one local "historical" group generally has a tough time getting a turnout over two dozen in a metro area of several million.

PC

Let me gently emphasize again that while suggestions about what RyPN should be are valuable, there is really not anyone behind RyPN as an institution any longer to suggest anything to! It is for all intents and purposes abandoned property. There is literally no one with the responsibility or authority to change the name or edit the text on the homepage, much lest adopt a new vision statement, a redesign, etc.

If there is a group of folks with a vision for the Website, the dedication to make it happen, and the necessary skills, I would encourage you to band together and consider adopting the site. As a first step you could email the Interchange moderators back channel and discuss it with them--they are the closest thing RyPN has to real existence any longer. I would also be glad to facilitate the startup by sharing contacts and historical information and files, and putting you in touch with the gentleman who hosts this ghost on his server.

But if you really have a vision for the site, there is no one to persuade to follow your vision--you will have to step forward to make it happen: form a new Board of Directors, contact us old timers for an orderly handoff, reactivate or re-register the corporation, and reopen for business.