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 Post subject: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:59 am
Posts: 64
Location: Allentown, PA
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

APRIL 14, 2011

ROCKHILL TROLLEY MUSEUM ACQUIRES HISTORIC FORMER NEW JERSEY TRANSIT PCC CAR #6

Rockhill Furnace, PA – The Rockhill Trolley Museum, the operating entity of Railways To Yesterday, Inc., a 501(c) (3) non-profit educational corporation, is happy to announce the acquisition of former New Jersey Transit/Transport New Jersey/Public Service Coordinated Transport PCC Car #6. This historic car was acquired from New Jersey Transit via the Friends of the New Jersey Transportation Heritage Center for preservation, display, and public operation at the museum’s location in the Allegheny Mountains of south-central Pennsylvania.

This historic car was originally built as car #325 for the Twin City Rapid Transit Company of Minneapolis, MN in 1946 by St. Louis Car Company and was sold to Public Service Coordinated Transport in 1953, where it was given #6 by PSCT. Car #6 served the citizens of Newark, NJ from 1953 until 2001, after which time it was retired from service and placed in storage.

Acquisition of this car is a significant milestone for both the car and the museum. This year, 2011, marks 10 years since the Newark City Subway cars were retired, and 75 years since the first production PCC cars entered service in North America. More than 2,000 PCC cars operated within 200 miles of the museum’s location in Rockhill Furnace, thus it is only fitting that such a significant PCC car should become part of the museum’s collection in 2011.

Car #6 is the second PCC car in the museum collection, joining former Philadelphia Transportation Company/SEPTA car #2743, which is in service after receiving $40,000 of electrical and underbody work over the past 6 years and is presently in the early stages of a restoration to its 1959 appearance.

Car #6 was shipped from New Jersey on April 12 and unloaded in Rockhill Furnace on April 13, where it was immediately placed in protected storage in the museum’s Carbarn #1 for display and servicing to permit the car’s return to operation as quickly as possible. Barring any unforeseen mechanical or electrical problems, the museum plans to have the car in public operation this summer.

The Rockhill Trolley Museum is one of the oldest continuously operating trolley museums in the Middle Atlantic, having operated trolleys every year since 1962. The museum offers a very scenic three mile round trip ride along scenic Blacklog Creek and is located across the street from the historic East Broad Top Railroad. For more information on the museum, as well as information on how to contribute to the preservation of #6 and other significant museum projects, please visit our website at http://www.rockhilltrolley.org. or look at the museum's Facebook page.

Joel Salomon
Railways To Yesterday, Inc.
Rockhill Trolley Museum


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:05 am
Posts: 115
Location: Australia
Great news. Do they still have more in storage?

Wes

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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12168
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I can't speak for certain, but as I am to understand it, whatever NJT had in reserve is being cleaned out literally as I type, promised, acquired by homes hither and yon. I am tracking the movements of another PCC, a line car, and a snowsweeper...........


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:39 am
Posts: 534
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
I can't speak for certain, but as I am to understand it, whatever NJT had in reserve is being cleaned out literally as I type, promised, acquired by homes hither and yon. I am tracking the movements of another PCC, a line car, and a snowsweeper...........


As of 2 weeks ago there were at least 6 PCCs cocooned and stored at the carbarn on the Hudson Bergen line near the Liberty State Park station in Jersey City.


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
According to Preserved North American Electric Ry. Cars, there are eight PCCs being held for the City of Bayonne, these are probably the cocooned cars mentioned. One has gone to the Shoreline (Branford) Trolley Museum and eleven were acquired by San Francisco Municipal Ry. A few of the Muni group are in service, but some have been sent back to Brookville for rewiring. Apparently while the carbodies were protected from road salt by being on a private right of way, the wiring started showing its age when Muni put them into service about 5 years ago. Five are shown in PNAERC as still in NJT storage; we can note the transfer of #6 to Rockhill, and await further developments.

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Bob Davis
Southern California


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Apple Valley, Minnesota
Bob,

I'm not so sure about your comment that running the PCCs in Newark meant no salt corrosion. Maybe no "road" salt, but there was definitely salt corrosion. Our Museum's TCRT No. 322 ran in Newark as their No. 3 for around 30 years. Later the car went to Cleveland to briefly run on the Shaker Hts line before retirement. No. 3 and and TCRT No. 416 (Newark No. 27; Cleveland RTA (Shaker) No. 27) were terribly corroded around the floor line, step wells, etc. When we rebuilt No. 322, we had to do major steel work on the floor, and much underframe members had to be replaced along the sides and under he floor. And, Newark had used many pounds of bondo to hide the dings in the carbody and patch over rusted out areas.

Apparently even tho the Newark PCCs ran in the old canal bed, the stations along the route were kept clear of snow & ice by the liberal use of salt and sand. Passengers' shoes and boots tracked the slushy salt into the cars and the salty liquid ran on the floor towards the sides and down below. After 30 years of this, guess what happened?

When we purchased our No. 322 from Cleveland we also obtained the aforementioned No. 416. We chose No. 322 over No. 416 to restore because we thought that No. 322 had less corrosion. After taking up the floor, we realized that it was amazing how the body of the car remained attached to the frame and floor. Most of the steel was rusted out. We eventually traded the 416 to the Shore Line Trolley Museum (who needs two PCC cars one wag asked) and they are restoring the car as Newark No. 27.

Go to our website and take a look at the roster of our cars. We have some before photos of No. 322 showing the decay and corrosion. Here's a photo of No. 322 taken in 2000, he year the restoration was completed and the fine car was placed in service on our Como-Harriet Streetcar Line.

Thanks!


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Jim Vaitkunas
Minnesota Streetcar Museum
www.trolleyride.org
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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:19 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 384
Location: Reston, VA
Last I heard, 3 of the 5 PCC's being held by NJ Transit and a snowsweeper were to be cleaned out. Rockhill Trolley Museum and Seashore Trolley Museum were to get 2 of the PCC's. The snowsweeper, I can't say until it happens, but will be on a loan basis from the New Jersey museum group. The line car and flat car are on loan from this group to the National Capital Trolley Museum. A snowplow went to Shore Line Trolley Museum several years ago. The 8 cars stored for Bayonne are supposed to remain, although the Bayonne project appears dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:56 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 705
On the subject of salt vs. PCC bodies, some experiences at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum come to mind. We have Pgh. Rys. cars 1138, 1467, 1613 (as PAT 1799 2nd), and 1711, SEPTA 2711 and 2723, and Shaker Heights 94. The theory that because 94 only ran on PRW it should not have seen rust is not quite true. Salt tracked inside by patrons off salt-laden loading platforms was responsible for the legs of all of the seats being completely rusted off over the years. Even the replacement legs are badly rusted on many of 94's seats. This car also suffered greatly from rust around the window areas due to aluminum window frames set in a steel surrounding. Another area of heavy rust is, like the previously mentioned Newark cars, right above the floor line.

The Pittsburgh cars show various amounts of rust damage. Because it was retired in 1957, before the era of massive use of road salt, 1138 had relatively little body damage due to rust. "Relatively" doesn't imply rust-free however, but most of the damage was confined to equipment boxes under the car floor. 1467 has severe rust all around the floor line, to the point that the whole floor forward of the doors in front is loose from the body such that towing or pushing the car on that end must be done with great care.

Although 1613 in its transformation to 1799 2nd got some amount of body repairs by PAT, subsequent use in the "Great Salt Era" has resulted in a well rusted body, again.

1711 escaped any rework by PAT, but when the car was finally given heavy repairs by ADtranz at their Elmira, NY plant in 2000/2001 the amount of rust found was overwhelming. The rust underneath was fully expected, but one surprise was that the whole blind side of the body was completely disconnected from the roof due to rust above the standee windows. Both St. Louis and Pullman built PCCs have suffered from rust creeping in at this point due to spotwelding of the body sheets with subsequent loss of the seal and water penetration into the joint. SHRT 94 is also pretty bad in this area. Surprisingly, our two ex-PTC 2700s are relatively rust-free in this zone.

Anyone acquiring any of the NJT PCCs and expecting a rust-free body will likely be in for an unpleasant surprise.


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:27 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:28 am
Posts: 82
Location: Central Pennsylvania
I'll offer a few comments regarding PCC body rot based on my experiences with an ex-Philly 2700, ex-Philly 2100, and what I've inspected on NJT #6.

As Dave mentioned, at least the Philly and Minneapolis all electric cars have center roof sections that are only spot welded to the car sides. The water seal is made by a caulk-like material. The Philly cars that went through the GOH program apparently had this seem cleaned out and re-sealed when they were rebuilt. This only lasted a few years before it started to leak on many cars, however, this work, combined with the extensive structural repairs done during the GOH program, helped limit deterioration of the roof carlines, based on what has been discovered during the restoration of #2168 at Baltimore Streetcar Museum and the beginnings of the body restoration of #2743 at Rockhill Trolley Museum. For the #2168, the volunteers removed the ad cards, cleaned out the loose chips, etc, from the interior framing, and finally primed and painted what was accessible to prevent further deterioration. Meanwhile, the professional restoration crew cleaned out the body to roof seam when the car was stripped and during the painting process resealed the seam with an industrial grade sealant. This work, combined with dry indoor storage, has led to a leak-free car. The same process will be used on #2743.

Regarding the ex-NJT cars, I believe a lot depends upon the individual car. For example, both #3 and #27 were sold to Cleveland (Shaker) in the mid 1970s. In the mid 1980s, all remaining NJT cars got a complete overhaul, including new stepwells and body renewals. The cars also got regular underfloor cleanings in later years as well by the maintenance staff. Comparing the current underfloor condition of #6 with what was under the #2743 before Rockhill's volunteers cleaned the corrosion, did some metal replacement, and repainted the underbody, what's been seen under #6 is very heartening. The interior has some areas with minor deterioration due to salty shoes tracking through the car, but not much (rear stepwell took the brunt of this but can be easily salvaged with proper work). Roof leaks are very minor, thanks to indoor storage during its running days and being repainted less than 6 months before being put in dead storage outside.

I'll know more after I spend a few days under the car, but everything I have seen looks great. The car was very well cared for by NJT during its running days.

- Matt Nawn


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:55 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 705
More on the side to roof joint on PCCs:

The serious problem with PRCo 1711 was only hinted on the outside of the car. But when the recess inside above the standee windows was explored, you could pull out as many handfuls of rust scale as you wanted. The repair process at Elmira was to cut away the roof sheet above the rain gutter and work inside to reconnect the side sheet to the roof, then reapply a new strip of steel matching the original roof curve. This was done to almost the entire blind side plus about an 8 foot section between the front and center doors. It was also necessary to pull up the entire plywood floor in this car to properly repair all the floor supports underneath. 1711 wasn't as bad along the floor line as our 1467 and SHRT 94, but still needed some new steel in certain areas.

Like Matt said, there's no substitute for indoor storage for trolleys. Mom Nature seems to hate them.......


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
Thanks for the clarification about salt damage/rust. I was rather naive about the matter, and my Southern California location puts me far away from the salty part of the country. I did notice a lot of rust on some of the SF Muni PCCs that were awaiting shipment to Brookville for their "extreme makeovers." I still remember the time I was riding the Pittsburgh system in the 1970s; I had stopped for a snack (possibly in the Castle Shannon area) and was looking for a place to dispose of the wrappers. Spotting a large trash bin, I opened the lid, and instead of finding assorted rubbish, discovered that it was filled with large crystals, presumably of road salt. I recall seeing an item about a Dallas PCC going to Texas, and finally being scrapped because of a totally rusted out body--can anyone confirm this?

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Southern California


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Union, IL
Bob Davis wrote:
I recall seeing an item about a Dallas PCC going to Texas, and finally being scrapped because of a totally rusted out body--can anyone confirm this?


Yes, Dallas PCC 624 (later MBTA 3329) was acquired by Age of Steam RR Museum after retirement but was later scrapped because the body was so rusted out.

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Frank Hicks
Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
Hicks Car Works


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 Post subject: Re: Rockhill Trolley Museum acquires NJT PCC car #6
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:02 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:28 am
Posts: 82
Location: Central Pennsylvania
There are some pictures of #6 in its current condition, as well as some historical photos, newly posted to Rockhill Trolley Museum's new website at http://www.rockhilltrolley.org.

- Matt Nawn


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