I'm guessing they'll be operating the train with Amtrak crews. Given that, it would be reasonable to think they'd also lease Amtak power, just like many of the other mainline excursions.

This is only a guess, but I think it's somewhat likely.

Sorry to intervene onto all this chatter with the facts, but enough already. Here are the facts;

1. We purchased 3 C39-8 locos as they were runners in decent shape and available at a very reasonable price.

2. They came equipped with cab signals which we will be required to have in/out of Wash. DC.

3. We will be providing the power for the GBX so as to have engines that match the livery of the train and so as to not have to worry about Amtrak running into power shortages.

4. We will operate 2 of the units ( back to back) on each trip to ensure no road failures and to achieve bi-directionality with the 3rd. unit in maintenance reserve. One unit has ample power to take the 15 car GBX over this route.

5. All 3 units are under going a thorough mechanical overhaul and I'm confident will provide very reliable service.

Thanks for your interest. Ross Rowland

I think the question is who is gonna pay that steep of a ticket price. And just to ride behind modern diesels.No way.

If I understand correctly, this train is intended to move wealthy Europeans headed for a week of golf at The Greenbrier from D.C. to the resort, as part of a tour package. It's not aimed at railfans or casual riders, but you could probably buy a ticket.

Walt L.

OK. Is it alright to say ENOUGH ALREADY! Seven pages of opinions and speculation? And you know what they say about opinions...

Thank you, Mr. Rowland, for providing the facts, and good luck with GBX!

To johnf4501, as far as I know we don't know each other, but:
If Mr. Rowland didn't think there was a good possibility of this being a successful venture do you really think he would be involved? Just because you may not be able to afford a ticket to ride the train and seem to have a particular aversion to anything but freights or Amtrak being pulled by diesels, why do you have to speculate on the GBX ridership and deride the use of diesels instead of steam? Do you seriously believe that the target market will be concerned about what is up front pulling the train? Do you have any investment in the operation? I don't, but I'll be happy to see a successful operation that may expose another segment of the population to something in which many of us here on RYPN have enjoyed some level of actual involvement. And yes, that's my opinion. (refer to line one, above)

Now, can we please get back to PRESERVATION??? I'm going back to lurking, now...

CPR 4000 is spot on. The GBX will be a part of a custom designed package tour aimed primarily at wealthy overseas customers who are passionate about the game of golf.

The ride on the GBX to/from the Greenbrier resort is but one piece of an all inclusive one or two week package that will include the Hay Adams hotel, high end guided tours of the White House, Smithsonian etc. and of course extensive play on the 3 championship golf courses at the Greenbrier.

The round trip fare on the GBX will be $ 999.00. It will obviously not be aimed at railfans and yes, to almost all those who ride.... they could care less what's pulling it!!

Ross Rowland

....... with the obvious addenda: "... as long as it keeps moving when it's supposed to and they make their tee time and tea time!"

And the grammarian in me insists on pointing out that the expression properly is "couldN'T care less"......

[dives for foxhole]

This IS about preservation. There's a long string of vintage passenger cars that are going to be towed behind the steam loco / diesels / battery powered GG1 or whatever that end's pulling this thing...

Should this venture be a sucess, they could live a long life. Should it fail, who knows what their fate will be. Another question is what will happen to the car interiors, and for that matter, what has already been done? Will the Pullman rooms be gutted if this is a daytime only operation? Will they do a RBB&B style "rebuild" that leaves the interior looking like a mobile home when they're done?

This is a very large collection of vintage rolling stock, larger than what most museums have in their collection, and what will become of it is very much related to preservation. This operation has had 3 or 4 previous incarnations AOE, Grandluxe, and whatever the middle incarnation was called. There was also the much hyped new luxury train that failed to launch.

Shouldn't we try to learn from these operations, or should we just continue on our merry way? Or is it "preservation" only when it's related to your pet project?

Ross & company own this equipment & in this country can do as they see fit. Most cars were revamped & changed by the railroads who owned them.
If you are so worried about what happens to these cars, BUY THEM & do what YOU want with them. Money talks!
If this train fails I have a feeling the cars won't sit in the weeds somewhere rusting away.
DBH

There are plenty examples of just that. The Spirit of Washington Dinner Train had some pretty nice equipment. It certainly wasn't a museum piece, they'd all be redone to a more modern style, but it was in good shape and operating condition.

It's rusting away in Eastern WA or someplace now, and has been for a few years. There are other examples as well, and you don't have to look too far to find them.

I guess you missed my point, They own the equipment & are bring it up to & probably way above FRA to luxury standards. Would you rather it sit rusting away in some museum? There is a lot more to preserving & maintaing railroad equipment than meets the eye. The cost of keeping cars in a restored condition even if kept stored inside is more than you think. These cars are being restored & hopefully for Ross & friends, bringing in revenue. Isin't that what the whole idea behind our railroads is. TO MAKE MONEY.
If this operation was not happening what fate would theses cars met??
At least for now they will be working & that means alot in my book.
So what are you saying should be done with this group of cars? Who is going to preserve them & who is going to pay for it ??

DBH

If this turns out to be a fluke, Ross could always use these cars to lease out as PV and possibly open a Pullman car museum. There are so many possibilities.

And you apparently missed mine. Read the first part of what I said again:



I have great respect for Ross & Co. I had the privilege of working with him on the AFT and Chessie Steam Specials. I am not at all worried about the fate of these cars while they're in his hands.

However... The fact remains that a venture quite similiar to this one has failed 3 times, and failed to even launch a fourth time. That's why I feel this discussion is about preservation. Ross is preserving these cars, and saving them from who knows what fate.

Because of that, I feel this discussion, about what he's doing and how he's doing it, has a place on the preservation board. There's more to saving rolling stock than parking it in a carbarn and putting a plaque on it. Ross is taking a different tack. How is he doing it, what does he have planned, who is the audience, they're all valid topics. How is he going to suceed where the rest failed? That's a valid topic in my opinion.

Folks were whining that this discussion isn't related to preservation, I feel that it is...

I wonder, if the whole trip package is $1000 per person, does that include the food during the trip? If that does, then (to me at least) spells value to the tourist families. There is also the fact that they really would have all the planning for the trip taken care of. Steam or diesel, this might just work to attract all sorts of people.

Most telling of all, was that NS got rid of the C39's when traffic and business was on an upswing, and they needed just about every locomotive they could get their hands on. Out went the C39's, and in came leased newer leased UP GE units, and former Oakway SD60's.

Clearly, there WERE factors behind the C39's departure ... other than being "surplus."